He is only taken 1 or 2 of the sand to seed his fresh sand which will not cause any harm especially in a large system. In that case, livestock moving in the sand will have already released the toxins into your water stream and killed everything.
Upgrade from 45 to 90 galons
- Thread starter dutreras
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I believe there is a flaw in your reasoning here. Yes, any ammonia or nitrite in the water will feed the bacteria. If there were no livestock and only new water were used the bacteria would die out. The flaw is the the livestock will continually create ammonia. The amount of bacteria will reach an equilibrium based on the amount created by the livestock. As long as the livestock is not increased immediately or too quickly the amount of bacteria will remain at equilibrium. But that is just my opinion and I am sure others will disagree.
You are going on an assumption that fish produce waste 24/7. If he use completely new water and add the fish in, who knows if the fish will produce waste immediately. Also, with that being said, the fish will produce the waste that is broken down to ammonia which in time is converted to nitrite which at that point some of the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate have died off due to starvation. It won't reach equilibrium in the same day. Maybe in a few days but not the same day.
He will also lose bacteria during the transfer. Some will become suspended in the water column when he remove the rocks which will be thrown out with the old water.
If your reasoning is correct (and I am not saying it is or it isn't) any due off of bacteria will also create the very "nourishment" the remaining bacteria need to survive. If I were conserved about it, I might use some Stability to offset it. In my opinion that would better a better option than bring in other contaminants with old water.
Either way, I think we are splitting hairs. Either method will work as long as proper acclimation techniques are used and the transfer time is minimized as much as possible.
He wants to minimize his cycle or not have one at all. I never said your method would not work. I am saying that my previous posts would achieve closer to his goal without any additional chemicals or so on. He should be able to resume reefings as if nothing happened.
Sorry but I don't agree but that is fine.
But let's be clear. I am sure you know this but maybe the OP or others tagging along don't. A cycle is not something that starts and ends. If it ends, so will your fish. "Cycling your tank" means you foster enough bacteria to continually cycle the ammonia created from waste to nitrite and the further cycle the nitrite to nitrate. Therefore having "another cycle" is not a bad thing. What is bad is if the cycle gets out of balance because there is not enough bacteria to consume the by products of waste.
Based on what you have stated to this point, a person can just simply get fresh saltwater, add sand, add fish from a saltwater store, and maybe a little bacterial supplementation and be able to not issues with parameters from the start.
Which basically saying there is no need to cycle a new tank because that will be ultimately what he is doing when he add the livestock right away.
Food for thought for readers:
"cycling" means the bacteria population is undergoing growth to be able to convert ammonia->nitrite -> nitrate effectively within a 24 hour period. Anything pass a 24 hour period means it is still "cycling". "Cycled" is when your tank has effectively converted ammonia->nitrite->nitrate within 24 hours or less.
"cycling" means the bacteria population is undergoing growth to be able to convert ammonia->nitrite -> nitrate effectively within a 24 hour period. Anything pass a 24 hour period means it is still "cycling". "Cycled" is when your tank has effectively converted ammonia->nitrite->nitrate within 24 hours or less.
No, that isn't anywhere close to what I am saying. The live rock he is moving has all the bacteria he needs for his current livestock and therefore his cycle will continue in balance. Almost no beneficial bacteria is suspended in the water column.
I have moved several times, so I'll give you my 2 cents here. These steps assume you've moved your fish to a QT tank or bucket.
1. Don't ever transfer your sand. In fact, if you have sand, it is recommended that you slowly siphon out your old sand and replace with new sand every couple of years. Moving is a great reason to get rid of all your old sand at the same time. I kept the sand during my first move, and the tank took very long to stabilize.
2. Turn off your pumps and let everything settle for 10 mins or so. Siphon the top half of water and use that to transport your rocks in a Styrofoam box. Rinse the rocks in the remaining water. Try to get as much detritus off as possible.
3. Mix new saltwater in your new tank using the same salt and specific gravity. Drop your rocks and corals into the new tank. I never really acclimate corals and never really had an issue just dropping them into the new tank. (LPS are more sensitive, so do acclimate if you have hard to keep LPS such as elegance. My elegance was the only coral that died from not acclimating. Other LPS such as torches also showed signs of stress.) Let the tank sit for a while, and do water changes as needed. This is a great time to remove detritus or nuisance corals/algae.
4. If going BB then you're done. If you're using sand, slowly pour sand into a PVC pipe so that the sand will go directly to the bottom. Doing it this way, your tank can clear up within a day or two.
5. Start adding your fish back into the tank when the water has cleared. Starting with the least aggressive/territorial ones.
For long moves, I stay in step 3 for up to a month. For short moves (30 mins or less), I just moved everything to the new tank that same day and made sure to do water changes at least once a day for the next week or so. The key is to not transfer your sand, and to rinse off detritus in your old tank water.
Also, make sure you have a lot of flow. This will speed up any cycles that may occur.
1. Don't ever transfer your sand. In fact, if you have sand, it is recommended that you slowly siphon out your old sand and replace with new sand every couple of years. Moving is a great reason to get rid of all your old sand at the same time. I kept the sand during my first move, and the tank took very long to stabilize.
2. Turn off your pumps and let everything settle for 10 mins or so. Siphon the top half of water and use that to transport your rocks in a Styrofoam box. Rinse the rocks in the remaining water. Try to get as much detritus off as possible.
3. Mix new saltwater in your new tank using the same salt and specific gravity. Drop your rocks and corals into the new tank. I never really acclimate corals and never really had an issue just dropping them into the new tank. (LPS are more sensitive, so do acclimate if you have hard to keep LPS such as elegance. My elegance was the only coral that died from not acclimating. Other LPS such as torches also showed signs of stress.) Let the tank sit for a while, and do water changes as needed. This is a great time to remove detritus or nuisance corals/algae.
4. If going BB then you're done. If you're using sand, slowly pour sand into a PVC pipe so that the sand will go directly to the bottom. Doing it this way, your tank can clear up within a day or two.
5. Start adding your fish back into the tank when the water has cleared. Starting with the least aggressive/territorial ones.
For long moves, I stay in step 3 for up to a month. For short moves (30 mins or less), I just moved everything to the new tank that same day and made sure to do water changes at least once a day for the next week or so. The key is to not transfer your sand, and to rinse off detritus in your old tank water.
Also, make sure you have a lot of flow. This will speed up any cycles that may occur.
Again, I disagree completely. Maybe in slang that statement is close to correct but in reality cycling refers to the nitrogen cycle. The nitrogen cycle is as follows, decaying organic matter will produce ammonia, one form of bacteria consumes that ammonia and gives up nitrite as it's byproduct. Another form of bacteria consumes the nitrite and it's by product is nitrate. In a closed environment there is nothing to consume the nitrate which is why we do water changes. This cycle continues no stop in a healthy environment.
This brain storming is awesome guys ! I think I have a lot to think about now. All of your input is helping. For now I am going to set a plan and then I will post it and I will let you know the results. Many many thanks
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You have the right to disagree. Isn't the the reference of ammonia->Nitrite->nitrate, the nitrogen cycle. And in reference to this hobby, to achieve a successful "cycled" aquarium, it has to be able to convert your current bioload within a 24 hour period otherwise, it is deemed non-cycled. It's not a slang statement. It's direct statement using standard English that even a 5 year old can comprehend.
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Looks great man!
