Whodonnit? Need some advice on my Trachies

[AWarnick]

I have several very beautiful Trachyphyllia in my tank and have had them for over a year. I have two very large ones that were thriving and puffed up very well each day and extended tentacles at night or dust and could be fed. However for the last few months they have been retracted and not happy at all. One of the healthies of the trachies was targeted by my clowns as host for the last couple months which I assume bothered that one, but definitely not hosting in the others. They seemed on deaths doorstep to me and I don't know why. Almost all of the rest of the coral in the tank are doing very well. I tried moving them to shadier parts of the aquarium thinking maybe some lighting intensity was bothering them with no improvement. I am removed and inspected and cleaned the bottom or each coral multiple times with no big findings other than a fan worm no the side of one Trachy. I have done an iodine based dip to provide any relief or kill off pest. After talking to worker at Pure Reef they suggested that something might predating on them when I am not watching (night time). I took 3 of the trachies out and put them in a fish acclimation box for the last 3 days and now they are super puffed up and seemingly very happy. I tried to feed them today but no tentacle response to be found. Because they are in the acclimation box and out in the light more I am ruling out the light intensity as an issue. That leaves me with 2 suspicions, either the flow is too high or something is munching on them or annoying them in some way I can't see. I have had 2 cleaner shrimp and 1 fire shrimp since the tank started and I have 1 or 2 peppermint shrimp now as well. I the following other creatures I suspect less: Foxface, Yellow Tang, purple pseudochromis, Green Chromis, clown fish, midas blenny, royal gramma, lawnmower blenny, a lot of different kinds of snails. The only other semi pesty things I have seen grow in the last 6 months are a thriving population of small white brittlestars and very recently noticing small white (spaghetti worms?) coming from the rock work.

So my question is, what do I do next to experiment with what might be causing the issue? I was thinking placing one of them in open top tupperware bowl to reduce flow and see if they retract or stay out. If the creatures do prey on them they would be able to get to them. The only other possible solution I have is buying a camera and do some kind of long term recording of the tank with red light on through the night to catch any predators....however I would not be looking forward to watching 8 hours of a dark tank in one spot.

What do you think is going on here and what is your best guess as to what or whodunnit?

Any help appreciated

Here is a picture of two of them when they were previously healthy.

 

[AWarnick]

And yes I do happen to have a current 200 gallon bucket of Tropic Marine Pro Reef from Turkey but I find it hard to blame that as all the other coral is doing so well. I also filter my saltwater very actively before use so I may not be seeing the effects if i had a bad batch.

 

[56cbr600rr]

Trachys and Wellsos took me some time (and losses) to learn and figure out.

First thing I did was to remove all my larger cleaner shrimp, etc.. Mine would mess with these larger corals.. Alternate feeding ReefRoids to a small piece of solid food. Once each through the week.

Nitrates 10. Phosphates .08ish..

When yours are puffed up, do they jiggle slightly? My experience, if they are moving around slightly, flow is good. If you don't see them wiggling at all, add more flow.

Also, par 100 or more...

 

[90gDreams]

I sure wish I could help, I had a huge one for years back in the day in a very simple setup. One of my favorite corals. Now I'm running better equipment and way more on top of things and one last 2 months, the other last 2 days...

 

[AWarnick]

The plot thickens......I decided to take one of the Welso's out and put in a smaller open top tupperware and placed it back in it's old location. I figured the tuperware would reduce the issue if there was too much flow and would keep any ground worms or other pests from disturbing the Trachy. It wasn't 15 minutes before my cleaner shrimp was on top of this coral ripping out bits. Took the trachy back to the acclimation box and going to be removing the 2 cleaner shrimp and then put the corals back where they used to live.....Process of elimination, if they become happy then those shrimp will either become permanent residents of the refugium or back to the store.

 

[56cbr600rr]

The plot thickens......I decided to take one of the Welso's out and put in a smaller open top tupperware and placed it back in it's old location. I figured the tuperware would reduce the issue if there was too much flow and would keep any ground worms or other pests from disturbing the Trachy. It wasn't 15 minutes before my cleaner shrimp was on top of this coral ripping out bits. Took the trachy back to the acclimation box and going to be removing the 2 cleaner shrimp and then put the corals back where they used to live.....Process of elimination, if they become happy then those shrimp will either become permanent residents of the refugium or back to the store.

Told ya, it was the common denominator for me too...

 

[90gDreams]

I wonder if my peppermint shrimp are to blame for mine...

 

[56cbr600rr]

I wonder if my peppermint shrimp are to blame for mine...

likely,..

 

[90gDreams]

Sounds like tempura is on the menu.... I miss having Trachys

 

[56cbr600rr]

ANy update? Happier healthier corals?

 

[AWarnick]

The saga continues and the experiments. The two cleaner shrimp are down in my refugium so I can't blame them for anything now. I have run a series of experiments to see if I can figure out what the problem is. After having them puff up to normal healthy size in the acclimation box, I tried putting them back in their old locations on the right side of the aquarium. First day they were fine and then on the second day receded again, could have been caused by my two clowns hosting in the darker red trachy. In the next experiment I moved them away from the clowns to the left side of the aquarium. Still not so happy. I put the healthier trachy in a tupperware container with holes in it for water flow. I put the other trachy in the back left corner in a tupperware but with no lid. The idea was to discern if there was an issue with water flow, creatures annoying the coral, or light. This video shows my first experiment:

As you can see the darker red trachy is puffed up and happy in the tupperware container. The second trachy in the back not so much. This has led me to believe the light intensity was too high so I constructed a DIY pergola for my Trachy. Here is a video of the red trachy under it's sun shield:

So now that I am very suspicious of light intensity being the problem I took some par measurements to see what they are living in. The following picture is of the whole tank with the trachy on the left in 87 - 100 par (if it were not under the pergola) and the Trachy in the back under about 45 - 57 par.


My tank ramps up from nothing at 9:00 Am and reaches peak at 1:00 PM until 5:00 PM



I had thought that 87 - 100 par was fine for Trachyphyllia. I am going to let them live for a week or so under a sun shad and see how they do.

As with everyone in the world things change in my aquarium over time. My current parameters are:
Temperature 78.0
PH 8.1
ALK 8.5
Nitrate 20 (all time high from last week, need to re-test this week)
Phosphate: .09 ( I have been intentionally trying to bring these up to 10 for Nitrate and .05 for phosphate and overshot a bit)
Salinity: 35.2

Yesterday was the second weekly water change with confirmed German Tropic Marin Pro....I had apparently been using serveral boxes/buckets of Turkish salt for the last 6 months or so. My mixing container was so dirty I thought I was growing diatoms on the interior surfaces. I have no evidence anything was bothered by this gunk, just and FYI.

Let me know what you think on the lights for a Trachy or other things I might not be thinking of? Any help appreciated

 

[AWarnick]

Oh and the crazy sponge with the PVC pipe is me trying the anemone cannon thing. I have 3 fails so far with one anemone splitting, one refusing to come out, and one escapee. I am up to 10 RBTA and I really only want one. If you have any miracle ideas that won't kill the anemones let me know. I will try a focused water pump on the foot to get them to release if my anemone cannon fails again.

 

[90gDreams]

Par looks a smidge low but I don't that is the problem. Have you run vibrant in the tank? Vibrant being occasionally run is the only difference between my old set up back a decade ago and this one that I can't keep a trachy alive in.

 

[AWarnick]

Hmmm.....that is interesting, about 12 months ago I used Vibrant for the initial GHA breakout. I have another aquarium downstairs I could move these guys to. I have added some small trachies to the tank since that treatment. Would you hypothesize that the entire tank has something innately in it (chemically) that will stress the Trachies forever or that the trachy itself that went through the treatment absorbed these chemicals and will never flourish?

 

[90gDreams]

I just know I ran vibrant in my 13.5 fluval and my ricordea melted. I dosed it for a few weeks in my 90g and things just looked a bit off, for a lack of a better way to put it. I'm 0/2 for trachy in the 90. I haven't tried one in the 13.5. I haven't ran vibrant in either in months, and neither were very long or consistent courses. Just grasping at straws really.

I'm running the same lights and near identical stock list to my old setup. Vibrant and more flow than before are the only changes. Heck I'm even checking alkalinity and phosphate I didn't even own those test kits before.

 

[56cbr600rr]

I did light experiments too. Read they like low par and mine were never happy. Upped par slowly to around 130 with flow and all good.