About to dive in head-first. Am I crazy?

[sounds fishy]

Hi guys & gals,

Relatively new to the hobby (about five months in), and a new member of ARC as of today.

Currently, I have a 6-gallon Fluval Edge on my desktop, with a 9-gallon sump underneath it in the CPU cabinet (see pictures attached). I replaced the useless stock lighting with a custom 27-watt LED system with controller, and I'm running a Jebao nano wavemaker in the display and BioCube protein skimmer in the sump. Ten hermits, six or seven various snails, 12 happy coral frags, a bunch of pods, and more bristle worms than I'd like. I'm loving my new hobby and very happy with my setup. I feel like I've got a good grasp of the basics, and learning more every day. After some initial turbulence, all water levels are great: 0 nitrates, Ca 450, Mg 1440, dkH 11, etc.

But today, I got an offer I don't think I can refuse. A good friend of mine in Florida has a spare (yes, spare) 180-gallon tank (6-foot length) with solid wood cabinet and hood, T-5 lights, sump, return pump, two wavemakers, protein skimmer, UV filter, dry rock...the works, all professionally maintained by the previous owner. He's offered me the whole shebang for $300, but only if I drive down there next weekend to visit and pick everything up to get it out of his house and restore marital peace. I'm leaning strongly toward making the deal (and who wouldn't at that price?).

So here's my question: Am I an idiot for wanting to take this on? Is there anything about a 180-gallon setup that should be significantly more difficult to manage than the setup I've already put together? Any expensive items I'll need to buy that I haven't considered? I don't want to invest a bunch of time and money in this new tank (and brace my floor joists to support it) if it's going to be hours upon hours of trouble and headache.

If you've got any experience with a tank this size and have some advice, I'm all ears. Talk me out of it.

Or better yet, offer to help me set it up and fill it with coral. :shades:
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[ryanremle]

I started with a 210, and it has been easier than I thought it would. No matter what you plan to keep you would likely benefit from a Rodi and ATO setup for water changes as you need quite a bit of water to keep up with water changes and evaporation. I got sick of going to a store and hauling 20-30 gal of water.

 

[lsu_fishfan]

Welcome to the club
I have a 60 and 250 gallon tank, both are not to much work as long as you have good equipment and maintanince schedules. The big difference is obviously the added cost of more water, electric bill, salt, and switching out of t5s unless you switch to LEDs.
Very nice setup you have, and let me know if you need any help

 

[rdnelson]

Welcome. As Luke mentioned there are a few larger expenses associated with a bigger tank but in many ways the large tank is easier to maintain. Small tanks have big parameter swings if you don't stay on top of them. Because of the greater water volume, large tanks are more forgiving.

 

[redstang]

Welcome! I'd jump all over that deal! FWIW, I started with a 29gal and upgraded to a 60gal a year ago. The larger tank has been far easier to maintain. 180gal is roughly what I'm hoping to move up to in a year or so.

 

[myreefclub0070]

welcome to the ARC family!
you know the saying bigger is better, well I believe that all the way.
I went from a 55gal to a 120gal and now I'm running a 265gal with a total water volume of 360, of coarse the cost of setting a bigger system up in much more but the rewards are much bigger as well.
lot less daily service if any, fewer swings if any and a lot more time just to enjoy the tank.
stick with this magnificent ARC crew and they will mostly all give you great advice and help in any way they can......except that guy rich(joking, he's a hoot).
good for gold my friend and have fun alone the way.

happy reefing!

 

[rdnelson]

Now for the first unsolicited advice. Don't ever start a thread with "Am I crazy?" Some around here (not me of course) will jump all over that one. Hehehehehe.

 

[camellia]

Starting with a 29 cube, I wanted more in less than a year. I went to a 55 that still wasn't big enough, it seems common in this hobby.
You've got a great deal, if you don't take it you will most likely kick yourself later.
As stated RODI, ATO, water bill, electric bill (not bad) more salt to purchase...
Adding LED's would help keep costs down. I would keep the T5's add leds and use both by lowering the daily hour usage on T5's you wouldn't need to replace as often.
Post some pic's when you've got it in place

 

[picoreefguy]

welcome to the club. i agree with everything that has been said already. this is a deal that i wouldn't pass up if offered to me. a few things to consider

1: placement. do you have a spot for this tank that it will look good, not be in the way and is close enough to things you will need like power outlets, water and drain lines.

2: will the spot you plan to put it support it? if not are you willing to have someone come out and add bracing

3:if you're married is your spouse cool with it? its not worth getting someone else out of marital hell if its going to put you in marital hell and cost you money in the process

4: can you afford a big tank? while you are getting a steal on the tank and equipment there is no telling what is in good working order and what needs to be replaced. and on top of that there are the small monthly, annual and other less frequent costs that add up and can be anywhere from a little to a crap ton higher than a small tank. things like salt, filter socks, carbon/gfo, food, water, replacement bulbs, replacement pumps, added power bill, live stock etc. you can spend thousands on a small tank and you can setup a huge tank without breaking the bank and how you come out in the end depends on what type of tank you want to setup.

5: do you have time for it? while a well setup system that has lots of automation can take very little time to maintain you still have to put some effort into it and if you dont have automation then its going to take you more time to take care of the tank. so consider how much of your time you are willing to spend on taking care of the tank.

now don't take this post as me trying to scare you off, im just trying to give you an idea of the reality of owning a tank weather large or small all of these things will (should) weigh on decision to get or not get this tank.

 

[sounds fishy]

Wow...so much great advice, and it's only 10:30 am! I appreciate all the feedback so far, and I'll be keeping track of all the comments as they're posted. To answer a few of the questions:

Do you have time for it?</em>
Yeah, pretty much. The setup will obviously be the most time-consuming, but I've got a few extra hours a week available for water changes & maintenance.

Will the spot you plan to put it support it?</em>
Not currently, but I'm handy enough and have easy access to the crawl space, so putting some jacks in place under the joists shouldn't be too difficult.

Can you afford a big tank?</em>
I couldn't afford to buy this setup at retail cost, but at $300 the purchase price isn't an issue, and the initial costs of water, salt, etc. won't break the bank. I'll be ok financially, assuming no huge unexpected costs arise.

As stated RODI, ATO, water bill, electric bill (not bad) more salt to purchase</em>
I got a great http://amzn.com/B00GJCE2X4">portable RODI system</a> on Amazon last month. It's theoretically capable of 50 gallons/day, and I'm assuming that should be fine for my purposes. I'll probably run it once a week to fill a trash can with clean water for top offs.

[B]Regarding RODI:[/B] When I set the tank up initially and mix the first batch of saltwater, do I need to use RODI water, or can I use tap water and condition it? My RODI system would need about four days to make 180 gallons of water, so I'm hoping I can just run the hose in through the window and fill from there. Any advice on that?

[B]Regarding lighting:[/B] How often do T-5 bulbs need to be replaced, and what's the average cost? I'd like to go with LED, but since this setup includes the T-5 strips, I'm going to try to use those for as long as possible before replacing them.

 

[bkostuch]

Sounds Fishy;1044898 wrote:

Regarding RODI: When I set the tank up initially and mix the first batch of saltwater, do I need to use RODI water, or can I use tap water and condition it? My RODI system would need about four days to make 180 gallons of water, so I'm hoping I can just run the hose in through the window and fill from there. Any advice on that?

I would run all water into your tank as RODI. I run my RODI to my 120 in my office from an outside faucet through my window. My only issue is after a couple months my wife finally notice what I was doing and I got the stink eye.... I would just add the RODI water to the tank and then drop in salt with, keep it circulating for a day and test salinity.

 

[dball711]

rdnelson99;1044876 wrote: Now for the first unsolicited advice. Don't ever start a thread with "Am I crazy?" Some around here (not me of course) will jump all over that one. Hehehehehe.

See now I thought that was perfect, my first thought was "you're in the right place and will fit in just fine...

Welcome aboard and buy the bigger tank!!!

 

[sounds fishy]

dball711;1044910 wrote: See now I thought that was perfect, my first thought was "you're in the right place and will fit in just fine...

Welcome aboard and buy the bigger tank!!!

Thanks!

I have an editorial background, so I wanted to make sure my subject line was pure clickbait...debated between the current "Am I crazy?" and "He has a simple nano reef. You won't BELIEVE what happens next!!!"

I decided to go low-key (but still made ya click!).

 

[dball711]

Sounds Fishy;1044911 wrote: Thanks!

I have an editorial background, so I wanted to make sure my subject line was pure clickbait...debated between the current "Am I crazy?" and "He has a simple nano reef. You won't BELIEVE what happens next!!!"

I decided to go low-key (but still made ya click!).

Got it and job well done, but please know that Rich will click on anything...if its free.

 

[picoreefguy]

Sounds Fishy;1044898 wrote:
Regarding RODI: When I set the tank up initially and mix the first batch of saltwater, do I need to use RODI water, or can I use tap water and condition it? My RODI system would need about four days to make 180 gallons of water, so I'm hoping I can just run the hose in through the window and fill from there. Any advice on that?

i would only run rodi water. the whole point of rodi is to have the purest water possible to keep out things we dont want in our tanks so if you start with tap then its defeating the whole purpose and you get unwanted junk anyway.

Sounds Fishy;1044898 wrote: Regarding lighting: How often do T-5 bulbs need to be replaced, and what's the average cost? I'd like to go with LED, but since this setup includes the T-5 strips, I'm going to try to use those for as long as possible before replacing them.

it really depends on the bulbs brand, size and type, a coralife 24" t5 bulb is going to be pretty cheap where as a geisemann 48" t5ho is going to be a little more expensive. individual bulb costs dont have a huge range but when you are buying mulitples of 4-8 at a time it adds up. if i were you i would use the lights that come with the tank until they need to be changed and then replace with led's. there are several brands of led's out there that will grow and color corals well but im a fan of ecotech marine radions. im currently using 2 of the gen 3 pro's. reefbreeders seem to be another one that people here have done well with. there are also lots of people with black box leds that have had some luck so check out all your options while you use the t5's that way you can get the one that you like best.

 

[mag327]

as a relative newbie as well my answer is buy the bigger one.... We already upgrading one step and if we had more space we'd be going bigger. If you have the space for it, go for it!

 

[crew]

RODI - it will take 4 days to fill the tank, but it will be worth it in the long run

Lighting - do you know how long the bulbs have been used? T5's typically last for 12-18 months and are generally ~$25 each at the size you will be looking at.

If it were me, I'd go bigger now with such a great deal.

Something I'm surprised no one else has mentioned is bigger tanks are typically easier to manage because you are working with a much larger volume of water. Problems typically take longer to occur simply because of how water you are working with.

 

[rdnelson]

Crew;1044940 wrote: RODI - it will take 4 days to fill the tank, but it will be worth it in the long run

Lighting - do you know how long the bulbs have been used? T5's typically last for 12-18 months and are generally ~$25 each at the size you will be looking at.

If it were me, I'd go bigger now with such a great deal.

Something I'm surprised no one else has mentioned is bigger tanks are typically easier to manage because you are working with a much larger volume of water. Problems typically take longer to occur simply because of how water you are working with.

See post #4 in this thread. LOL.

 

[morganatlanta]

Don't get sucked into something more than you can handle just because it is a deal. Whether the tank/stand/etc cost $300 or $1300 is going to be irrelevant in the long term. You need to be able to handle the costs and hassles of a larger tank. $1 per gallon per month is not a bad rule of thumb for a budget for salt, GFO, replacing stuff, upgrades you want to do, etc. Fifteen minutes a day, plus an hour a week is a good rule of thumb for maintenance time, plus one whole day once or twice a year for a major cleaning and any component replacement you might want to do. It will be fun for a while, but can turn into work before long.

Think about your infrastructure for water changes. That's a big challenge for a large tank. You'll want a couple Brute trash bins or other large container, an RO unit hooked under the sink, extra pumps, salt buckets. Do you have room for all that stuff?

Is your floor where you are going to put the tank able to handle nearly 2000 lbs?

Are you ready to spend $400 on a controller? If it doesn't come with one, you'll probably want one.

Do you like the style of the stand? It's a big, obvious piece of furniture and many of the stock ones look like crap, and are poorly designed to boot. Changing it out on a tank that big is hard. Better to get one you are happy with the first time.

Once you get the system set up and want to start adding stuff, you'll need a quarantine system. Do you have room for that?

 

[sounds fishy]

MorganAtlanta;1044978 wrote: Don't get sucked into something more than you can handle just because it is a deal. Whether the tank/stand/etc cost $300 or $1300 is going to be irrelevant in the long term. You need to be able to handle the costs and hassles of a larger tank. $1 per gallon per month is not a bad rule of thumb for a budget for salt, GFO, replacing stuff, upgrades you want to do, etc. Fifteen minutes a day, plus an hour a week is a good rule of thumb for maintenance time, plus one whole day once or twice a year for a major cleaning and any component replacement you might want to do. It will be fun for a while, but can turn into work before long.

Think about your infrastructure for water changes. That's a big challenge for a large tank. You'll want a couple Brute trash bins or other large container, an RO unit hooked under the sink, extra pumps, salt buckets. Do you have room for all that stuff?

Is your floor where you are going to put the tank able to handle nearly 2000 lbs?

Are you ready to spend $400 on a controller? If it doesn't come with one, you'll probably want one.

Do you like the style of the stand? It's a big, obvious piece of furniture and many of the stock ones look like crap, and are poorly designed to boot. Changing it out on a tank that big is hard. Better to get one you are happy with the first time.

Once you get the system set up and want to start adding stuff, you'll need a quarantine system. Do you have room for that?

Great questions, and exactly the sort of second-guessing that I was looking for when I started this topic. I'll take them one by one.

Spending 15 minutes (or more) per day is no problem -- I do that already with my nano reef. Also not an issue for longer maintenance, when necessary. I was definitely aware of the time investment required to sustain a saltwater system before I decided to take on the nano project, and to this point I haven't had any issues keeping up. Once it's up & running, the 180 should really just be more of the same, but on a larger scale. Or so I tell myself.

The monthly expenses aren't a huge issue, and I do have room for the tank and supplies. I'm still figuring out the water change logistics, but my house is pretty accessible and wheeling a trash can over to a bathtub is easy enough. I have a small (50 gallon/day) RO system already, and it'll do the job, if a bit slowly.

The stand is actually a nice custom-built dark stained (almost black) wood unit with matching canopy and won't be an eyesore. As for a controller, it would definitely be nice to have, and I may spring for one down the road. Initially, I'll manage it all manually.

The floor is causing me some heartburn, but it's workable. My house has 90-year-old hardwoods with solid hardwood joists (not soft pine like today's houses), and easy access to a standing-height crawl space. I'll put in a few floor jacks and braces below before I fill the tank, so it'll be ready for the weight.

Quarantine system is a very good point; I hadn't given it any thought. I can pick up a simple 10-gallon at Petco and put it somewhere out of the way when the time comes. Or I may just convert the nano into a quarantine tank.

Fortunately, I'm in no great hurry to get everything set up immediately. I can take my time and do things right, because I have plenty of room to store the tank in my outdoor shed in the meantime. And if I do decide that it's more than I want to take on, I'll have no problem making my money back (and then some) by selling it.

Thanks for taking the time to provide solid advice!