Sanity Check RODI ATO Fill Up Thingy

[mattyams]

Time has come. The tank I've carried around through 3 different houses is going to get set up.

Here is where I need the sanity check. The image below is a rough drawing of how I THINK the hookup should go as far as refilling the ATO when empty and to eliminate TDS creep.

Timeline of events:
ATO reservoir is empty and optical eye is triggered.
Apex closes the solenoid to the reservoir, opens the flush solenoid and the water in solenoid for...lets say one minute.
After one minute, Apex closes flush solenoid and opens the reservoir solenoid.
ATO reservoir is filled and water flow is shut off by float valve.
Pressure switch in-line triggers Apex to turn off the reservoir solenoid and the water in solenoid.
Rinse and repeat.

In Case of Leak:
Leak detectors below RO/DI and next to ATO reservoir tank. Either is triggered and all solenoids close.
Solenoids stuck open then LeakController LCS before water in solenoid triggers and cuts water completely.

Roast me.

Equipment list. Most of it is overkill but I have it, so I might as well use it.

Tank - JBJ RL-30 AIO
Heater - 200w
Lighting - ReefBreeders Photon (Oh yeah, the original from 2012)
Skimmer - Tunze 9004
Return Pump - Sicce Syncra 3.0 (700gph)
Filter Media - 2x Aquamaxx Reactors for GFO and Carbon
ATO - JBJ Dual Nano, 5g ATO reservoir
Water Movement - Vortech MP10 (Converted from ES to QD)
Control - Apex w/Leak Detection & 3x solenoids for ATO reservoir fill

 

[dball711]

I had my set up similar to what you illustrated. The problem I encountered was the 5 gallon reservoir would turn into a slimy mess and I had to run carbon to prevent it. I ended up just running RODI lines to the tanks with no reservoir.

 

[gill]

So you mention sanity. That diagram makes my head hurt. For a 30 gallon display, that seems like a whole lot of automated headache? I have a 10 gallon ATO reservoir for my 300 gallon, and it lasts almost a week. I just refill and flush RO/DI as needed, by hand. My ATO reservoir has never gotten slimy. Every few months I rinse it out.

 

[picoreefguy]

I will say that I agree it seems like overkill for such a small tank but other than that it seems solid. I like the idea though and might put something like that in place for when I travel. crazy idea but If you encounter the slime issue Dave had you could add a dosing pump to the mix to put a couple ml of peroxide into the reservoir for a few mins before each time you fill it. Should be diluted a good bit when you fill the reservoir and even more so when it gets added to the tank plus it breaks down into water and o2 as it gets hit with light so it’s not much of a concern for your livestock. But again that just adds unnecessary complexity.

 

[mattyams]

I agree on the overkill. But like I said...I already have the equipment so I might as well use it.

 

[mattyams]

So you mention sanity. That diagram makes my head hurt. For a 30 gallon display, that seems like a whole lot of automated headache? I have a 10 gallon ATO reservoir for my 300 gallon, and it lasts almost a week. I just refill and flush RO/DI as needed, by hand. My ATO reservoir has never gotten slimy. Every few months I rinse it out.

The harder the better I always say. Or is that what she says?

 

[ActiveAngel]

This could be an issue with your diagramming... but assuming you did that correctly, your tubes to your Membrane are off. Your red (source) should enter where your yellow is. Your yellow (waste) should exit where your red is. Feel free to post a photo for verification.

but yes. I agree this is overkill for a 30g. Having equipment already isnt a valid reason. Just because you can do something, doesnt mean you should. Thats how inexperienced people always hurt themselves. Rather, the value added should surpass the cost (including the cost of risk).

Also, are you hard plumbing your RODI to your ATO? I would be cautious with that. If your ATO ever fails, it will not only kill your tank quickly, but also continually flood your house until you can stop it. You'll want to regularly test your leak sensors and/or program time or volume limits into your controller... which is even more overkill.

 

[mattyams]

This could be an issue with your diagramming... but assuming you did that correctly, your tubes to your Membrane are off. Your red (source) should enter where your yellow is. Your yellow (waste) should exit where your red is. Feel free to post a photo for verification.

but yes. I agree this is overkill for a 30g. Having equipment already isnt a valid reason. Just because you can do something, doesnt mean you should. Thats how inexperienced people always hurt themselves. Rather, the value added should surpass the cost (including the cost of risk).

Also, are you hard plumbing your RODI to your ATO? I would be cautious with that. If your ATO ever fails, it will not only kill your tank quickly, but also continually flood your house until you can stop it. You'll want to regularly test your leak sensors and/or program time or volume limits into your controller... which is even more overkill.

Probably should have mentioned that there might be an upgrade to a larger tank sooner rather than later and having everything there could save work further down the road. The diagram was a quick and nasty mockup in Photoshop, I might fix it later for clarity. I'm just making sure I have the right idea and the concept down, I wasn't looking for validation. RODI is not hooked up with hard lines, it's all hooked up with 1/4" poly tubing. And nothing is actually hooked into anything, I'm just attempting to put everything together and make sure I have it right. And flooding shouldn't be an issue with the checks I have in place, I hope.

 

[mattyams]

Redo of the drawing.

 

[ActiveAngel]

I trust your system will be assembled correctly in person. For people that may use as future reference, the updated diagram now has blue and yellow lines mixed up.

My apologies for ambiguity. Poor choice of words on me. I didnt mean to refer to the type of line. Rather to the system design in which your water supply feeds into your ATO directly. This is a red flag for many people. The type of line (plastic, vinyl, pvc,...) should not inherently cause flooding without a system issue.

 

[mattyams]

I see what you are saying about the diagram, the positioning is incorrect for those 2 lines. I wasn't trying to be precise in that manner, just showing waste goes this way and RO water goes that way. But now you mention it, it started to bug me...so I fixed it and replaced the other photos so there is no confusion.

 

[ActiveAngel]

I see what you are saying about the diagram, the positioning is incorrect for those 2 lines. I wasn't trying to be precise in that manner, just showing waste goes this way and RO water goes that way. But now you mention it, it started to bug me...so I fixed it and replaced the other photos so there is no confusion.

View attachment 63295

Lol, no worries. Its part of my job as an engineer.. Minor diagram issues arent inherently bad. It only becomes bad when someone follows it in the physical design.

Id still be concerned with plumbing a house directly to an ATO reservoir. Ive seen too many issues escalate quickly over the years, and this seems to be asking for trouble. But thats just based on my experience.

What feedback would you like to get on this system?

 

[mattyams]

Lol, no worries. Its part of my job as an engineer.. Minor diagram issues arent inherently bad. It only becomes bad when someone follows it in the physical design.

Id still be concerned with plumbing a house directly to an ATO reservoir. Ive seen too many issues escalate quickly over the years, and this seems to be asking for trouble. But thats just based on my experience.

What feedback would you like to get on this system?

I'm curious why this is asking for trouble? I see this all over the place with folks connecting their RODI to fill either their ATO reservoir or mixing station or both. I just don't like to lug buckets of water and pour them into a small reservoir...let's face it, I'm not getting younger.

 

[picoreefguy]

I think the main reason it’s asking for trouble is that it would be directly connected to a constant water source so if you had a leak or a piece of equipment that failed you could flood your house and be faced with a huge bill to fix it not to mention the potential for a huge water bill as well depending on how long the water stayed running. But if it runs long enough for the water bill to be a concern then you’ll prob have bigger problems to worry about lol. That being said I think it can be done fairly safely if you build in redundancy and make sure to have your apex alert you the second anything doesnt go according to plan.

 

[dball711]

I think the main reason it’s asking for trouble is that it would be directly connected to a constant water source so if you had a leak or a piece of equipment that failed you could flood your house and be faced with a huge bill to fix it not to mention the potential for a huge water bill as well depending on how long the water stayed running. But if it runs long enough for the water bill to be a concern then you’ll prob have bigger problems to worry about lol. That being said I think it can be done fairly safely if you build in redundancy and make sure to have your apex alert you the second anything doesnt go according to plan.

I had the same concern since I have direct feeds to all my tanks. My controller allows me to set a max run time which I have set from 1 to 2 minutes depending on the tank.

 

[picoreefguy]

You can use something like this well that just kills the watersource if it detects water. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/flow-lok-leak-detector-for-rodi-systems.html

 

[picoreefguy]

Also check out this video at 16 minutes they talk a little about this subject.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Yup. Exactly as others have pointed out.

Ato reservoirs are a bigger risk than feeding into a mixing station. When i was getting started, people would share such disasters stories that previously happened to them. And would vehemently warn others not to do the same. Over the years, people stopped connecting their supply to their ATO, and instead feeding it to a mixing station or storage reservoir.

However, technology has advanced, for better and worse. Older tech is typically more resilient, but with fewer valuable features. Its a trade-off to consider. Combine the advancements in tech with human psychology, there are a few more potential issues to prevent... but it can be done safely for sure. Its just a little more work, on top of what could already be overkill. But thats our personal choices to make.

I agree with @dball711 and set runtime limits, with alarms. That will go a long way, and cover a variety of potential issues.

...You'll want to regularly test your leak sensors and/or program time or volume limits into your controller...