Is our hobby endangered?

[wantsummora acropora]

I watched a video on Melevs Reef featuring Rich Ross and I was amazed at how easily our hobby can be ended. Like, if the major airlines prohibited corals or fish from being transported due to outside pressure from orgs such as the ASPCA (who has been actively trying to end our hobby). Well they succeeded in Hawaii. The video lays out all the dirty laundry of our hobby (some real some out-right lies) but it seams like they are going unanswered. I want to get more involved on that end but not sure what to do being new to this culture. I’m sure it’s going to take our whole village though. I encourage everyone to watch the video as I’m sure there is a lot of good info there for us all. It is long and Mark goes way out in left field a few times but the video as a whole is an eye opener.

 

[ichthyoid]

The supply of cultivated corals is substantial. Enough that I doubt an import ban would impact us much, beyond price increases & access to newly discovered species.

The fish & many invertebrates are another story. While some are cultivated, it is the exception rather than the rule. Organizations like Rising Tide have recognized the need for sustainability and are working hard to make it reality.

We can have an influence, by buying cultivated specimens whenever possible. It will surely cost more, but it’s in our collective best interest to do what we can. Here-

Rising Tide Conservation – Saving the Ocean One Fry at a Time

www.risingtideconservation.org

 

[snarky shark]

Thanks for the link. I emailed to see how we could get involved locally.


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[ichthyoid]

We considered pledging our annual donation to them, but didn’t get a response for some time. Maybe next year?

 

[wantsummora acropora]

The supply of cultivated corals is substantial. Enough that I doubt an import ban would impact us much, beyond price increases & access to newly discovered species.

The fish & many invertebrates are another story. While some are cultivated, it is the exception rather than the rule. Organizations like Rising Tide have recognized the need for sustainability and are working hard to make it reality.

We can have an influence, by buying cultivated specimens whenever possible. It will surely cost more, but it’s in our collective best interest to do what we can. Here-

Rising Tide Conservation – Saving the Ocean One Fry at a Time

www.risingtideconservation.org

I'm a novice on the whole coral part of the hobby, but maybe its more than just a coral problem. The ASPCA have gained allies in public opinion and in the government. We have nothing. BRS, WWC and Tidal Gardens, etc,, may disagree with you as they are already being undercut by hobbiest/frag swaps selling cheaper. It may be that they need that "new blood" infusion into their businesses. Stagnation is a form of death. My take, probably flawed.

 

[wantsummora acropora]

We considered pledging our annual donation to them, but didn’t get a response for some time. Maybe next year?

Thats another point Mark or Rich brought up, the almost total apathy from people, companies and organizations that have the most skin in the game and their business model, profit by volume. When that involves live animals it not only sounds bad, it is bad. IMO that needs to change.

 

[wantsummora acropora]

The supply of cultivated corals is substantial. Enough that I doubt an import ban would impact us much, beyond price increases & access to newly discovered species.

The fish & many invertebrates are another story. While some are cultivated, it is the exception rather than the rule. Organizations like Rising Tide have recognized the need for sustainability and are working hard to make it reality.

We can have an influence, by buying cultivated specimens whenever possible. It will surely cost more, but it’s in our collective best interest to do what we can. Here-

Rising Tide Conservation – Saving the Ocean One Fry at a Time

www.risingtideconservation.org

Thanks for the link. I'm going to send them an email and see if they respond.

 

[snarky shark]

I would say also one of the biggest problems the industry faces is the impatience of people.

We all want things and not everyone does their homework to see if that piece is right for them or their homework in what is needed to maintain that piece. So there are a lot of pieces that don’t survive in our aquariums. Unfortunately this can happen even if all parameters are correct.

Coral does not grow very fast in most cases to sustain a business model even with them having grow out tanks. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see companies and people culture the coral so that allows the oceans to naturally build up as they need to.

One other argument needed is the research done by organizations to re-seed the corral reefs affected by global warming,pollution and fishing. Just my .02.


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[ActiveAngel]

I agree with many of the facts pointed out here, but Im not worried at all about our hobby's future.

Markets always change. And hobbies/activities also slowly adapt over time. If stores are being undercut on prices by hobbyists, then they are overpricing the market... even if out of necessity. Work can be hard for a great many industries, including our own. If our hobby starts to become endangered, meaning it downsizes and becomes less popular, then market prices ca. catch up with LFSs and help businesses.

This is a great topic for a debate, and both sides would have many interesting arguments. But at the end of the day, im not worried. Sure, many things will change. And also, some things wont change. But the hobby will continue as many others have over the past decades/centuries.

 

[snarky shark]

I agree with many of the facts pointed out here, but Im not worried at all about our hobby's future.

Markets always change. And hobbies/activities also slowly adapt over time. If stores are being undercut on prices by hobbyists, then they are overpricing the market... even if out of necessity. Work can be hard for a great many industries, including our own. If our hobby starts to become endangered, meaning it downsizes and becomes less popular, then market prices ca. catch up with LFSs and help businesses.

This is a great topic for a debate, and both sides would have many interesting arguments. But at the end of the day, im not worried. Sure, many things will change. And also, some things wont change. But the hobby will continue as many others have over the past decades/centuries.

Simple but eloquent point. In the end when it comes to all things, Either adapt or become extinct.


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[Tanster2]

Hobby isn't but wild coral is. Corals are not a finicky as people think they are, especially in the wild. They can adapt and evolve to thrive in a variety of conditions. The problem is, ocean acidity, temperature, and a variety of other variables are changing faster than wild coral can adjust.

The hobby is alive and thriving and I think it always will. It's a lot like the plant hobby. People buy, trade, and grow their own from other growers all the time. Nurseries exist, but most of them are small, family owned shops. I think this is the way we'll see coral go.

 

[ActiveAngel]

Hobby isn't but wild coral is. Corals are not a finicky as people think they are, especially in the wild. They can adapt and evolve to thrive in a variety of conditions. The problem is, ocean acidity, temperature, and a variety of other variables are changing faster than wild coral can adjust.

The hobby is alive and thriving and I think it always will. It's a lot like the plant hobby. People buy, trade, and grow their own from other growers all the time. Nurseries exist, but most of them are small, family owned shops. I think this is the way we'll see coral go.

Great analogy. I agree completely.

 

[ichthyoid]

Fwiw,
We, the Atlanta Reef Club, are already supporting Rising Tide, indirectly.

We joined MASNA this year & we are donating our annual nonprofit gift of $5000 to the Georgia Aquarium, which we’ve also done before. The aquarium gift is designated for research & conservation.

Both organizations support Rising Tide.

You may like to also know that many of the organizations we buy from in the hobby are stakeholders as well. So we support on multiple levels -

Organizations – Rising Tide Conservation

www.risingtideconservation.org

 

[kodock]

This may not be relevant., but I am getting back in the hobby after a 2 year break, and it looks like some product lines have “monopolized”. I’m sure Covid created a survival of the fittest situation for the smaller companies, but I’m miss seeing the broader selection of equipment and supplies. I always get worried when the number of suppliers get low. It could create a position of price gouging* and impact competitive efficiency growth and product improvement. Just my thoughts..

 

[wantsummora acropora]

I would say also one of the biggest problems the industry faces is the impatience of people.

We all want things and not everyone does their homework to see if that piece is right for them or their homework in what is needed to maintain that piece. So there are a lot of pieces that don’t survive in our aquariums. Unfortunately this can happen even if all parameters are correct.

Coral does not grow very fast in most cases to sustain a business model even with them having grow out tanks. Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see companies and people culture the coral so that allows the oceans to naturally build up as they need to.

One other argument needed is the research done by organizations to re-seed the corral reefs affected by global warming,pollution and fishing. Just my .02.


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Guilty, guilty, guilty! Ive lost a few. Im not buying anymore for a few months in hopes I can get my system dialed in. My original goal I lost sight of. But I read somewhere that corals cannot be returned to the wild. Don’t remember why but it was coming from a research scientist. Not sure if that is valid or not.

 

[scuba steve]

Guilty, guilty, guilty! Ive lost a few. Im not buying anymore for a few months in hopes I can get my system dialed in. My original goal I lost sight of. But I read somewhere that corals cannot be returned to the wild. Don’t remember why but it was coming from a research scientist. Not sure if that is valid or not.

You typically do not want to return corals to the wild after they've been in most systems. You're mixing coral species from around the world, and who knows what potential pests they've picked up along the way. There's real risk of introducing a disease or parasite to the wild that it's not equipped to deal with. Institutions that do grow and restock wild colonies have very stringent isolation and quarantine protocols to help prevent that.

 

[wantsummora acropora]

That makes total sense.

 

[90gDreams]

From a coral stand point it's pointless to continue to harvest corals from the wild. There really aren't any corals coming in that are different than previously existing types once you are 6" away from it. If it were not for the photoshop and macro lenses we wouldn't have near the varieties we currently have.

I understand some things like Trachys and Scolys aren't really viable for aquaculture or even hobby level propagation but that may be a price we need to pay. Trachys are among my favorites but I wouldn't bitch if they disappeared.

With Tangs now beginning to enter the captivebred marketplace there is plenty of hope to see most fish become available as CB. It is just supply and demand. People wanting to save $10 to buy WC over CB is aggravating. If CB is available supporting that work is the only responsible thing to do. Penny pinching on fish that live for 5-20 years in a hobby that runs into the thousands for basic setups is mind boggling to me.

/rant

 

[wantsummora acropora]

From a coral stand point it's pointless to continue to harvest corals from the wild. There really aren't any corals coming in that are different than previously existing types once you are 6" away from it. If it were not for the photoshop and macro lenses we wouldn't have near the varieties we currently have.

I understand some things like Trachys and Scolys aren't really viable for aquaculture or even hobby level propagation but that may be a price we need to pay. Trachys are among my favorites but I wouldn't bitch if they disappeared.

With Tangs now beginning to enter the captivebred marketplace there is plenty of hope to see most fish become available as CB. It is just supply and demand. People wanting to save $10 to buy WC over CB is aggravating. If CB is available supporting that work is the only responsible thing to do. Penny pinching on fish that live for 5-20 years in a hobby that runs into the thousands for basic setups is mind boggling to me.

/rant

I agree to a point. Right now it could be said that buying captive bred is a matter of conscience and people are willing to pay a little more for it. If it becomes the only means then the unscrupulous get in the game we may be faced with inbred fish that end up with a lot of problems. Not everyone will be an ORA or LiveAquaria. But who knows; I had my first saltwater tank in '89 and the hobby as it exists today was not even possible.

 

[90gDreams]

I almost think, with regards to fish breeding, "everyone" will have to be an ORA or Biota type outfit. Aside from the damsels, clowns, and cardinals the setup costs necessitate it being a well done well executed and sustainable business. Corals are and will always be a poopshow because the barriers to entry are pretty low.