New 40 breeder all in one frag tank

[labernathy]

So this is my first post on ARC along with my first adventure into a frag tank and coral. So hello and thank you all for the valuable information I have already received from reading your posts and thank you for the feedback I am sure I will receive.

I have a 26G bow front FOWLR tank that I have been running for a few months now and also a 125 freshwater that has been going close to a year(if my girlfriend didn't like its inhabitants so much it would be getting converted to salt). So this isn't my first aquarium just my first coral tank!

However, this is the first tank that I am actually doing more than buy parts and put together so I wanted to get input from more experienced aquarists. With that in mind, please correct anything that I say that may be incorrect or contrary to your experience.

My plan is to dedicate the first 8" on one end of the tank to filter, live rock and refugium. Water will spill over the top of the divider and down through a sponge, carbon and anything else needed. It will then flow up through live rock(1-2" pieces) the live rock will be raised on egg crate like everyone makes frag racks out of to help distribute the flow. Finally the water falls down into the refugium area that will house macro algae and the return pump and if needed a skimmer. I am good about doing weekly water changes and do not plan to keep SPS so from what I have read a skimmer is not necessary.

I am considering using a Maxi Jet 1200 as my return pump since I am not actually lifting the water and will have very little back pressure. With that in mind the 1200 only pushes about 300gph in this configuration. Is that going to be enough or would I be better served using something that will move more water? If so, how much water should I try to move and what do you recommend?

I have 2 of the Maxi Jet 1200s and the second would be a circulation pump within the tank. I would most likely point it toward the bottom to keep anything from settling there and to just generally help stir things up.

My plan for lighting is two of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/18W-6x3w-LED-Coral-Reef-Plant-Grow-Flood-Light-Fish-Tank-Aquarium-White-Blue-/271343450126">http://www.ebay.com/itm/18W-6x3w-LED-Coral-Reef-Plant-Grow-Flood-Light-Fish-Tank-Aquarium-White-Blue-/271343450126</a>
and one of these in the middle: [IMG]http://www.ebay.com/itm/231028736484?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649">http://www.ebay.com/itm/231028736484?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649</a>
I have no idea if they will work well but for the price it is worth a shot. Worst case I move them to the FOWLR tank and buy something nicer for the frags.

I will also be using a gravity fed ato because all of the electronic ones scare me. I know many have a double redundancy built in but I still don't trust sensors that are in and around water all the time.

At this point I have the tank, 2 of the lights(and the third on the way), the 2 maxi jets, ABS plastic to make the overflow area, and egg crate. Anything in addition to those items I am open to suggestions and recommendations on.

I have also built a light rack out of galvanized electrical conduit that will hold the lights. I will take pictures soon before I paint it black and post it along with pics of it painted.
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[picoreefguy]

hi and welcome to the club. looks like youre off to a pretty good start, but there are a couple suggestions i would like to make. instead of using a maxi jet as your return pump use something a little larger. most people like to have aproximately 10 times the volume of their tank, and usually a little more, in a return pump so you want something in the 400-500 GPH range you could even use both of your maxijets as return pumps and have two returns, one on each side. and as far as lights go those will most likely grow coral just fine but you wont get the best color out of your coral with them. but i wouldnt worry about that for a while since you already have them. use them until you get a feel for what it takes to properly care for coral and when you do some upgrading get a better set of lights. there are a few good ones that arent too expensive like the reefbreeders and taotronics lights. and its always a good idea to run a skimmer. it is very easy to run a tank without a skimmer (my current tank is almost three years old and has never had a skimmer on it.) but it is much easier if you do run a skimmer. youll be surprised at how much it can pull out even if you arent putting much in. anyway welcome again and if you have any questions feel free to ask

 

[freezerrat]

I agree with the point above but would like add that the refugium is best with slow flow. I suggest you tweek the design a bit to relocate the return pump.

 

[ringo®]

I may be remembering this wrong, but I don't think the maxi-jet's have the best service life when used as a return.

You may want to rethink the lights as well (sorry to be a buzzkill). http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250637">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250637</a>
And that wasn't even the thread I was looking for, so It's happened at least twice.

 

[picoreefguy]

Ringo®;918411 wrote: I may be remembering this wrong, but I don't think the maxi-jet's have the best service life when used as a return.

You may want to rethink the lights as well (sorry to be a buzzkill). http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250637">http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250637</a>
And that wasn't even the thread I was looking for, so It's happened at least twice.[/QUOTE]

i was thinking the same thing but since his wont be fighting any real head hight i dont think itll be a problem. the only real reason to change the pump would be for more flow

 

[ringo®]

Picoreefguy;918413 wrote: i was thinking the same thing but since his wont be fighting any real head hight i dont think itll be a problem. the only real reason to change the pump would be for more flow

Very true. I also may be totally making that up.

 

[picoreefguy]

no i think youre right cause im using an mj1200 and i have noticed a decrease in flow. but that also could be my clear tubing getting clogged with algae growth lol

 

[snowmansnow]

These are my thoughts....

find a way to use more LR. If you're only dedicating 8" to filtration I THINK you'll be hurting for biological filtration in the long run. Perhaps use that 8" for matrix, but use egg crate with PVC legs to lift your frags high enough from the bottom to run a sort of LR plenum underneath.

I read "sponge" in the OP. I'd nix the sponge idea.

also, go ahead and plan on fabricating a cover for the filtration area. No reason to grow unwanted algae in there.

I think its a pretty good design.

B

Edit: BTW I really like that idea for routing the water though filtration areas... This could be VERY useful in a sump area. If you were to incorporate some sorts of sides and a bottom it could be a lift out media tray of sorts

Edit: As for being afraid of electronic ATOs .. some are VERY reliable.

IMO buy a Tunze Osmolator and forget its there. I've had one for years and never an issue at all. It would also allow you to use an inline kalk reactor if you ever wanted to. Again, if done correctly there is a VERY low chance of failure. Here is a link....
http://www.marinedepot.com/Tunze_Osmolator_Universal_3155_Electric_Powered_Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off_Plug_In_Units-Tunze-TZ4111-FIDPETPU-vi.html">http://www.marinedepot.com/Tunze_Osmolator_Universal_3155_Electric_Powered_Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off_Plug_In_Units-Tunze-TZ4111-FIDPETPU-vi.html</a>

Edit: I'm a little concerned about your lighting choice also. Not knocking on your build, but I would question the long term viability of these lights in successfully growing corals.

One thing with LED is that you get EXACTLY the spectrum that you buy and nothing else. The problem is, IMO, that its hit or miss if you're getting exactly the light the corals need to be healthy. If you miss it.. .then you're out of luck.

It looks like cost is a limiting factor with the lighting, but IMO go this route (I'm still a T5 person), and never look back. I think with the built in filter area you could get away with using only a 24" fixture with 4 lamps on a tank this shallow (especially if your corals aren't dead on the bottom).

[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_24_Inch_SunPower_T5HO_High_Output_Fixtures_24_Inch_T5_Fluorescent_Light_Fixtures-ATI-UZ3001-FILTFIT54U-vi.html">http://www.marinedepot.com/ATI_24_Inch_SunPower_T5HO_High_Output_Fixtures_24_Inch_T5_Fluorescent_Light_Fixtures-ATI-UZ3001-FILTFIT54U-vi.html</a>

Edit: [QUOTE=][B]Labernathy;918338 wrote:[/B] ABS plastic to make the overflow area, and egg crate. Anything in addition to those items I am open to suggestions and recommendations on.

.[/QUOTE]

You're on the right track.. It would be VERY easy to grab some LEXAN at home depot or even black acrylic sheet from your local glass shop to make the divider out of.

use Weldon 16 to construct it with.
[IMG]http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-oz-tube-IPS-Weld-on-16-Plexiglass-Acrylic-Cement-/320483851760?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4a9e537df0">5 oz Tube IPS Weld on 16 Plexiglass Acrylic Cement | eBay</a>

And since I'm building a frag system vicariously through you hahaha Go ahead and plan on the possibility of a HOB Skimmer to spear head your filtration issues... It isn't fancy, but I've found that AquaC Remora skimmers are pretty dang good little skimmers for small tanks, and won't break the bank.

[IMG]http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaC_Remora_Hang_On_Protein_Skimmer_Hang_On_Spray_Injection_Protein_Skimmers-AquaC-AC3111-FIPSHOSI-vi.html">http://www.marinedepot.com/AquaC_Remora_Hang_On_Protein_Skimmer_Hang_On_Spray_Injection_Protein_Skimmers-AquaC-AC3111-FIPSHOSI-vi.html</a>

 

[labernathy]

Thank you all for the great feedback! It looks like I will be doing a bit of a rethink on the overflow area.

As far as the lights are concerned, I want to give them a try if they do not work out I will get something better. As for the fire concerns, I have disassembled these things and the entire housing is metal that is properly grounded(tested with a multimeter). If someone had a fire with one it is because they were not using a GFCI plug which is a bad idea for anything that is around water or they just had a faulty unit.

 

[just josh]

Im also following along, I have a bigger tank I might do the same thing to.

Thanks for the thread!!!

 

[dball711]

Hi and welcome aboard! I wanted to chime in on your design and offer some thoughts. Please know I have been making all-in-ones for 25 years from 2.5 gals to 150 gals. Your filter area is about 8.5 gals an that should be large enough depending on what all you wanted to accomplish in the space.

Two things to consider…one is the first chamber. You mention it’s a spill over but really it’s a flow over, there is no surface skimming. For me a spillover or surface skimmer is a must, it will keep a film from collecting on the water surface and provide for better circulation. To accomplish this the water must spill over an edge and drop creating surface tension and pulling the surface water to the overflow.

Second consideration is that your first 2 chambers have the same 1” top recess, having just one is adequate and will allow a spill over. Are you planning on a skimmer or a fuge?

For a flow rate I would aim for 400 gal/hr. I used a Rio 1400, 420 gal/hr and it only draws 27 watts so it doesn’t generate a lot of heat. Or you could use the 2 maxijet 1200’s but 600 Gal/hr flow might be a little high.

I have a 40gal all in one that I am replacing with a new 75gal all in one. My 40 breeder has a false wall made from ¼” black acrylic with top and center slits routed that you can have if you would like. The current partitions can be removed and reconfigured as you would like. Not sure if my timeline would meet your needs, about 4-6 weeks from now. Let me know if you want it, its yours for the asking.

 

[labernathy]

dball711;918637 wrote: Two things to consider…one is the first chamber. You mention it’s a spill over but really it’s a flow over, there is no surface skimming. For me a spillover or surface skimmer is a must, it will keep a film from collecting on the water surface and provide for better circulation. To accomplish this the water must spill over an edge and drop creating surface tension and pulling the surface water to the overflow.

Second consideration is that your first 2 chambers have the same 1” top recess, having just one is adequate and will allow a spill over. Are you planning on a skimmer or a fuge?

I am not sure I follow what you are referring to here. Are you saying that the first chamber wall (between tank and chamber 1) needs to be higher than the second (between chamber 2 and 3) to create the drop in water level to pull the top film off the water or something else?

I was not planning to use a skimmer but from the feedback above I'm looking into it. As far as the fuge is concerned I was planning to grow Chaeto in there with the return pump and heater but I was informed above that I would have too much flow with this setup for the Chaeto . After just a bit of research on the topic I found mixed reviews on how much flow was required for proper growth but additional feedback would be appreciated.

dball711;918637 wrote: For a flow rate I would aim for 400 gal/hr. I used a Rio 1400, 420 gal/hr and it only draws 27 watts so it doesn’t generate a lot of heat. Or you could use the 2 maxijet 1200’s but 600 Gal/hr flow might be a little high.

I was looking at http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-Quietflow-Submersible-Aquarium-Utility/dp/B008F40P9Y/ref=sr_1_15?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1386938119&sr=1-15&keywords=aquarium+pump">this</a> pump or possibly [IMG]http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-Quietflow-Submersible-Aquarium-Utility/dp/B008F40M74/ref=sr_1_7?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1386939189&sr=1-7&keywords=Aqueon+Quietflow">this</a> one. I like this idea of adjustable flow rate and it seems to comfortably bracket the range of flow I will likely need.

[QUOTE=][B]dball711;918637 wrote:[/B] I have a 40gal all in one that I am replacing with a new 75gal all in one. My 40 breeder has a false wall made from ¼” black acrylic with top and center slits routed that you can have if you would like. The current partitions can be removed and reconfigured as you would like. Not sure if my timeline would meet your needs, about 4-6 weeks from now. Let me know if you want it, its yours for the asking.[/QUOTE]

I would love to take it but I already have the tank and ABS plastic for my application. The time line would probably work out just fine as I am in no rush to set this thing up but I kind of want to just do this whole thing myself. Thank you for the offer though.

 

[dball711]

My point on the chambers is that you only need one "over the top" situation to cause a spill over and surface skimming action. The way you have it laid out I don&#8217;t see any benefit to the second chamber. Really the best thing is to set it up and run water through and make sure it performs as you wanted it to. I usually do this with a new design and study flow through the filter and tank prior to adding salt and starting a cycle. Trial and error is the best teacher.

I ran 400+ gal/hr through the fuge in my 40 and chaeto grew great, high flow was not a problem. Also I see no benefit to an adjustable flow, I have worked with some and have always found it beneficial to run the pump wide open. They tend to slow down anyway as gunk builds up over time (sometimes pretty quickly). I think a skimmer is a good idae, I used a Tunze 9002 because it was pretty effective and didnt take up much space.

Best of luck and post pictures as you go.

 

[labernathy]

I understand now I believe. The purpose of the second chamber is that the water will flow up through live rock hopefully maximizing the benefit of the small amount that I will have in there. Keeping in mind that this will be a coral only or possibly one fish tank. Please correct me if I am thinking about this the wrong way or unnecessarily over complicating it.

Thanks for the feedback on the pump. i will probably take your advice and get the fixed volume pump.

I will try to keep this posted as often as I get parts.

 

[labernathy]

I finally got my baffles in place. I've been rather busy during the holidays... also threw together a small support for the live rock that will be in the second chamber. My hope is this will allow better flow up and through this chamber. I also have the 3rd light in and everything is soldered and sealed up. I silicone everything in place last night and started making the RO water so I should be set to fill it up tomorrow evening or the next day. I will be putting a coat of black paint on the baffle area tonight to hide the crappy silicone job I did.

I will post more pictures once it is full of water and I have made my frag racks.

One question, I am thinking of using PVC pipe as legs for the rack like many others I have seen but I was thinking of making a 3-4 tier system where I could nest them together to make cleaning the bottom easier. Search nesting tables to get a better idea what i am talking about. When not cleaning they would be spread out to give full light to everything but when cleaning you could nest them to give easy access to the bottom.
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[cosigner]

I like what you've done so far. It kooks really nice. I

Edit:

Edit: Sorry for all that, my phone its being dumb... anyhow, I'm in the middle of doing something very similar and can't wait to see how yours turns out.

 

[labernathy]

So I have the tank filled with water and the lights in place. The more I look at them the more I think they may be a bad choice. We will see though.
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[picoreefguy]

they actually dont look too bad but i would probably switch that one in the middle to match the other two and maybe add a fourth thats also the same as the two blue ones

 

[curtismaximus]

Cool building man. Curious to see how the lights work out. Also, evaporation is going to be real with that spray bar.

 

[labernathy]

Well sadly I will be haulting this build for a while. I have emptied it for now. I am going to focus on my 26g bowfront for a bit and try a few softies there.