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Old 10-26-2011, 5:11 PM   #1
thanhreef thanhreef is offline
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AI Sol Blue Kelvin Settings?

I'm looking for a guideline how to tune % of White, Blue, and Royal settings that achieve certain Kelvin settings. Is there a tool or formula?

Thank you
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:32 PM   #2
Seth The Wine Guy Seth The Wine Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by vista View Post
I'm looking for a guideline how to tune % of White, Blue, and Royal settings that achieve certain Kelvin settings. Is there a tool or formula?

Thank you
Best formula I can think of is take the light off the tank. Very carefully and neatly put it back in all the packaging. And see if by some act of mercy you can return it to where you bought it. Then, put some MH on your tank with the Kelvin bulb of your choice and actually watch things GROW!
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Old 10-26-2011, 11:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth The Wine Guy View Post
Best formula I can think of is take the light off the tank. Very carefully and neatly put it back in all the packaging. And see if by some act of mercy you can return it to where you bought it. Then, put some MH on your tank with the Kelvin bulb of your choice and actually watch things GROW!
Seith that's some good advice coming from a person who's had some hard experince. I would have thought those AI fixtures were the best, you must be right about the spectrum. I'm sorry to hear this coming from someone who was considering going to LED's.

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Old 10-27-2011, 12:04 AM   #4
gthockey18 gthockey18 is offline
 
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Vista, I had a similar question about my SOL Blue when I got it. All I can tell you is to try different levels and see what pleases your eye most. If you really want to see what others are using there is a HUGE thread on reef central about the AI SOL modules which many many people tell the % intensities they use. That may be a good place to start. I've looked around for a while and never seen anything that helps you figure out what kelvin different setting are. If you find something please let us know. Currently I'm running mine at 50/50/50 off an Apex with VDM module if that helps any. I'd disagree with Seth about returning because it can't grow anything. I grow SPS, LPS, zoas and mushrooms under mine all seem to do well AND grow. I just swapped to all 70 degree optics too, seems to get more even coverage. Good luck!

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Old 10-27-2011, 12:36 AM   #5
McPhock McPhock is offline
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+1 on growth and color spectrum. If you go to metal halide bulbs, hope you like exactly the color you get.

Now, I had 250W 20k radium bulbs before. They were totally rad in regards to color and growth! I just couldnt stand the heat and power consumption.

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Old 10-27-2011, 6:49 AM   #6
thanhreef thanhreef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth The Wine Guy View Post
Best formula I can think of is take the light off the tank. Very carefully and neatly put it back in all the packaging. And see if by some act of mercy you can return it to where you bought it. Then, put some MH on your tank with the Kelvin bulb of your choice and actually watch things GROW!
haha..I am sorry that AI did not work out for you. I have had 2 modules for more than 3 months. I love it, my corals love it. I have still 12 different colonies left which were brown before I broke down my tank. Their color are coming back very good every day. LPS and zoa are looking amazing.

Anyway, I found what I looked for.
1W:1B:1RB ratio approximately 14,000k-15,000k
25W 50B 50RB approximately 20k
100W: 6000-7000k

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthockey18 View Post
Vista, I had a similar question about my SOL Blue when I got it. All I can tell you is to try different levels and see what pleases your eye most. If you really want to see what others are using there is a HUGE thread on reef central about the AI SOL modules which many many people tell the % intensities they use. That may be a good place to start. I've looked around for a while and never seen anything that helps you figure out what kelvin different setting are. If you find something please let us know. Currently I'm running mine at 50/50/50 off an Apex with VDM module if that helps any. I'd disagree with Seth about returning because it can't grow anything. I grow SPS, LPS, zoas and mushrooms under mine all seem to do well
AND grow. I just swapped to all 70 degree optics too, seems to get more even coverage. Good luck!
Thank you. I run mine from 1PM to 12AM. it is s running different ratio at differnt time. For SPS I set 50/75/75 for 4 hours.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:30 AM   #7
ichthyoid ichthyoid is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth The Wine Guy View Post
Best formula I can think of is take the light off the tank. Very carefully and neatly put it back in all the packaging. And see if by some act of mercy you can return it to where you bought it. Then, put some MH on your tank with the Kelvin bulb of your choice and actually watch things GROW!
If this weren't a sad result of effort by a dedicated reefer, I would be LMAO. It's great that you have retained your sense of humor Seth.

It's troubling that the premier manufacturer of our future lighting source has given this type of result.

Did you by any chance measured your PAR with the AI's? If so, what was it?
(sorry if you already posted it, I just don't remember)

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Old 10-27-2011, 5:09 PM   #8
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Very interesting -- but not funny (from the old Laugh-in show) dating myself here!

I stopped by Marine Design today to see the AI set up Mike put on his 400g display tank. He loves them and claims they are currently the best he could find. He praised the module build.

I simply can't afford to take the plunge yet. The folks at AI claim I need 4 modules to adequately cover my 72" 125g tank. At $400 a pop times 4 -- that just ain't in my budget right now.

However, when I pull the trigger -- this is where I'll point the barrel.

-geno

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Old 10-29-2011, 11:40 AM   #9
Seth The Wine Guy Seth The Wine Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by ichthyoid View Post
Did you by any chance measured your PAR with the AI's? If so, what was it?
(sorry if you already posted it, I just don't remember)
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ad.php?t=59909

I just added a third AI unit a couple weeks ago and going to measure the PAR today with all 70* optics. I'll see how corals look in a couple months. That will tell the real story.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:25 PM   #10
Seth The Wine Guy Seth The Wine Guy is offline
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To all those who are happy with their growth... Please take some time stamped pictures to show growth by month. I've done so to actually document results and profess them. (Turns out a lack there of) If there are good results documented by someone I would really like to know what they are doing with these lights that I'm not. I would love nothing more than to get great results from $1,500 worth of lights.
Tank parameters are not the issue per my Salifert tests (And verified with a $2,000+ bench top photometer)

And "happy" with something is relative. Some people are "happy" to just have a healthy bowel movement once a day. (Ask my grandpa) I look for a little more out of life. (And my tank)
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Old 10-29-2011, 2:00 PM   #11
Acroholic Acroholic is offline
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Personally, I think the AI Sol Blues are getting bashed on the ARC Forum too much. I believe the negative results are based on User Experience using an inadequate number of units for the tank size for the type of corals being kept, and too low white intensity settings.

The inadequate number of units problem is perpetuated by the lengthy Reef Central threads on these, in which many users with only introductory experience with these units post their experience and recommendations, and readers take these as a guide for their initial settings, then the problem is perpetuated even further when these Users post their limited experience.

For example, the AI recommended number of modules for a 48" long, 24" wide, 24" deep tank with the units 12" or less above the water line is 4, many people are trying to get away with two and raising the light higher in the tank for better spread. While this may be fine for LPS and Zoas, this is not going to cut it for SPS. Raise the modules and you lower the PAR. What will result? Browning and slow or no growth in the SPS corals. Switch out the 40 degree optics for 70s, and you further cut the ability of the LEDs to penetrate the water. Result, less PAR.

Outside of other causes of browning, zooxanthellae will multiply in response to a decrease in light to maximize he amount of PAR they absorb, hence the brown color. Coral color comes from the coral tissue. Zooxanthellae are mostly brown in color. This based on discussion with Todd LaJeunesse, the featured speaker at our March 2011 meeting.

I believe the core of these browning issues was started by Buyers that have tried to get away with using fewer units than they should for cost savings, and overuse of the dimmability feature to where the corals are starved for white light, resulting in browning of SPS. Also, many buyers have set up these Sol blues, used them at high intensity, had some point burn issues on their corals (from the 40 degree optics in a magnifying glass type effect), then had a knee-jerk reaction, dramatically lower the white LED intensity, and get browned corals as well.

I based my initial intensity settings and number of units used on the popular discussion threads on RC and other Member's settings, and guess what, my corals browned as well.

I started looking at all threads I could find from users with large, colorful SPS reef tanks using AI Sol Blues, and one theme I found among them was a higher number of Sol Blue units than you would see from a User that was having browning issues. Another theme I saw was that the people with colorful SPS tanks also had a large chunk of their photoperiod with the modules run at a high intensity, like 100/100/100 for several hours, or 90/100/100, or 85/95/95. The theme being these colorful tanks were using the Sol Blues at or near equal intensity settings for the white, blue and royal blue LEDs for a large percentage of their photoperiod.

I went from 6 Sol Blues on my 300 Deep Dimensions tank to 9, which is in the middle of the recommended number from AI for my tank dimensions. I also switched back to the standard AI optics setup (four 70 degree, four 40 degree). I have a six hour chunk of my photoperiod where the lights run at equal intensities (100/100/100) for 6 hours straight.

My large montipora colonies (Setosa, Sunset, Forest Fire) have all come back to their original coloration. My one surviving SPS went from orange to brown, and is now orange again with massive polyp extension and exponential growth compared to when I had 6 AIs on there with low white intensity settings. I have reintroduced about 35 SPS frags/colonies anywhere from 6 weeks to a couple weeks ago, and these are maintaining their coloration and growing.

So based on my experience with these in two different use scenarios: too few modules vs enough for SPS corals, using large, colorful Sol Blue lit SPS tanks as a guide for light intensity settings and changing up my intensity settings to mimic these, and ignoring the posts on those RC treads by Sol Blue users that starve their SPS corals of white light, my results with my Sol Blue modules have been polar opposite what they were before.

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Old 10-29-2011, 2:17 PM   #12
Seth The Wine Guy Seth The Wine Guy is offline
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[QUOTE=Acroholic;700234}

For example, the AI recommended number of modules for a 48" long, 24" wide, 24" deep tank with the units 12" or less above the water line is 4, many people are trying to get away with two and raising the light higher in the tank for better spread. While this may be fine for LPS and Zoas, this is not going to cut it for SPS. Raise the modules and you lower the PAR. What will result? Browning and slow or no growth in the SPS corals. Switch out the 40 degree optics for 70s, and you further cut the ability of the LEDs to penetrate the water. Result, less PAR.
[/QUOTE]

I'll can forward you the emails from AI telling me 2 modules were absolutely what I needed for my tank and it's needs. (When I emailed them several months later unhappy with the results their answer was the person that told me that is no longer with the company and he was probably wrong)

They should stand behind the advice they give, especially after it's proven wrong. Make it right, sell me another unit at cost. Something. Not tell me tough luck.

If I bought 10 units at the original retail I would go down in flames defending them too.

I don't want claims, I want pics! Come on Dave, don't take it personally, you didn't make the lights.
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Old 10-29-2011, 2:22 PM   #13
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I'll give you some pics later today after my kids leave. I have had good growth, but coloration was lacking. I recently upped the intesity to nearly 100% as mentioned above and the colors are improving. Also, I have a BB and my husbandry had been lacking. I have corrected that as well. I have a halide unit that I plan to put over the tank in a month to compare results.

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Old 10-29-2011, 2:58 PM   #14
Acroholic Acroholic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth The Wine Guy View Post
I'll can forward you the emails from AI telling me 2 modules were absolutely what I needed for my tank and it's needs. (When I emailed them several months later unhappy with the results their answer was the person that told me that is no longer with the company and he was probably wrong)

They should stand behind the advice they give, especially after it's proven wrong. Make it right, sell me another unit at cost. Something. Not tell me tough luck.

If I bought 10 units at the original retail I would go down in flames defending them too.

I don't want claims, I want pics! Come on Dave, don't take it personally, you didn't make the lights.
I was recommended six units by AI for my 300, and that was not enough. That is AI's, or the former AI employee's failure. They do have a posted unit recommendation chart on their website, which I originally ignored as well. This chart seems to be spot on now that I am using it.

Seth, it doesn't matter to me if I bought 10 units at retail or 20 units at retail. If a product works it works, if it doesn't, it doesn't, and I'd be the first to report a bad experience, regardless of what I spent. Pride is not an issue for me regarding this. My failure was buying into other User's experience with too few units for their tank size and coral selection.

First use with low white intensity settings and inadequate unit count (6) browned my corals out, as I posted about. I am not seeing this now with the change in intensity settings and increase in unit count, which is right in line with the AI recommendation (6-12 units) on their website. The user needs to use this unit count recommendation range based on their coral selection. If you are keeping softies, LPS, zoas, you will be at the lower end (6 units). Mixed LPS/SPS tanks would be a the middle of this range (9 units). Heavy SPS biased systems will be at the higher end unit count recommendation (9-12 units). Makes sense to me.

I tried to be objective in my first post. You dismissed my entire post as me taking this personally. I assure you this is not the case.

You demand pics, not claims, in your post above. Your original thread "Aqua Illumination - THE GOOD THE BAD THE UGLY" does not contain a single posted picture documenting your claims. Why are you demanding something of others you have not even provided yourself?

I believe your claims based on the number of units you are using (2 on a 120), as my initial experience with 6 on a 300 with low white intensity settings is the same. But my experience with 9 units on a 300 is different, primarily because of the increase in PAR from the higher intensity white settings and increased unit count I am using.

Also different is I don't have a beef with AI for bum advice, which I get the idea you do have from your posts. I agree their original advice on unit count to you was a failure on their part, but not enough units or inadequate intensity settings is different than the units being inherently flawed, which is the message I get from your experience and postings about them. They are not the same.

Last edited by Acroholic; 10-29-2011 at 3:59 PM.

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Old 10-29-2011, 6:36 PM   #15
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I sure hope I don't "step in it" here since I'm really new to LEDs for lighting reef tanks. I've been doing a LOT of research and as noted, there's very little true documentation (via time stamped photos) of coral growth.

With that in mind, I came across the following blog (clearly this guy's opinion -- but worth a read -- I think). He makes some serious claims about the spectrum from LEDs and its application to reef corals.

I too, talked with AI (at this time my light of choice) and they said for my 125g display (72" long) I would need 4 lights. Based on the conversation here, I'm not sure that's sufficient. They claim in a few months they will have a new hanging system that will allow the lights to be hung length-wise and then I would only need 3. So far, I'm skeptical.

-geno

http://blog.captive-aquatics.com/cap...nd-a-miss.html

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Old 10-30-2011, 9:47 PM   #16
Seth The Wine Guy Seth The Wine Guy is offline
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We can officially say this post is hijacked Gaddafi style. So, to be fair to Vista, should we take this outside? (New thread)

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...593#post700593
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