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Old 05-16-2017, 5:15 AM   #141
kzoo kzoo is offline
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Nice looking tank! Have you looked at your water source I see your Po4 is low but any chance of silica? Have you looked at the bubble method? Dinoflagellate take up lots of oxygen may help.

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Old 05-16-2017, 8:12 AM   #142
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AcroPower is nice (I use it and KZ Coral Vitilizer), but be careful! Start with half the dose, and work your way up. If I overdose even a tiny bit (granted my system volume is 1/3rd of yours) I will get minor cyano outbreak on the sand.

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Old 05-16-2017, 10:17 AM   #143
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I had dinos in my tank and I used h202. research it for yourself and make sure it would work for your needs. It worked great for me and finally got rid of the dinos for good. I experenced no negative effects.
Still not sure if they are dinos or a bacterial outbreak, so I'm not sure H2O2 is a viable option.

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Nice looking tank! Have you looked at your water source I see your Po4 is low but any chance of silica? Have you looked at the bubble method? Dinoflagellate take up lots of oxygen may help.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm of the understanding that silica feeds diatoms rather than dinos. I've looked into the nano-bubbling/microscrubbing method and it's something I'm considering. It seems natural and hopefully wouldn't have any negative side effects although I'm not sure it would cure this.

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AcroPower is nice (I use it and KZ Coral Vitilizer), but be careful! Start with half the dose, and work your way up. If I overdose even a tiny bit (granted my system volume is 1/3rd of yours) I will get minor cyano outbreak on the sand.
I'm a bit concerned about that... if this a bacterial bloom, as some have suggested, I believe the acropower could fuel it. I started dosing last night at the suggested weekly rate, but I'm breaking it up daily. This should let me get a handle on how it's effecting the tank.

I'm at wits end here. I feel like I'm learning a lot but I'm not sure what I'm learning is going to cure this issue.

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Old 05-17-2017, 9:27 AM   #144
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I'm leaning towards thinking this all stems from the strongest algae/bacteria that the Vibrant couldn't combat and it's now taken the low phosphate situation in the tank and taken off with it. I believe it probably would have laid dormant if it was being outcompeted by other more controllable algaes.

I stripped the water in the tank bare from the get go. I was running GFO and changing it out constantly, targeting that 0 phosphate... and succeeding. The tank was a barren wasteland for the first 4 months of the tank. I haven't run any since November. The tank was started in September. I started the KNO3 dosing in early December and the Vibrant shortly after that, as I was dealing with some GHA on the back glass and plastic bits in the tank. If I could go back again and start over, I never would have used the Vibrant or only used it to get it under control and then backed off but I continued dosing as I saw no ill effects until this started popping up.

For the record, I was asked to take some of the stuff out of the tank and swirl it around in a container to see if it reconstituted. It seems like it did. It seemed to form pillar like structures within the container within the first 10 minutes or so.

Immediately after swirling the water around and agitating it with a baster:


10 minutes or so later, you can see how it's reconstituted and formed pillars and stringy sections:


Between seeing the stuff reconstitute and seeing how it covers everything and talking with some knowledgeable people, I believe I have a form of dinoflagellate ostreopsis which I should be able to knock out with a nice small increase in phosphates and allowing some other more controllable algaes to overtake and outcompete.

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Old 05-17-2017, 10:43 AM   #145
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5 minute timelapse of the stuff reconstituting.


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Old 05-25-2017, 7:40 PM   #146
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Update:

Crossing my fingers over here. I think I'm making some progress. It looks like the dinoflagellates are slowing down the spreading and possibly receding a bit. I've only been blowing it off of the corals and a little bit here and there when it's impeding on a coral. Additionally, I've been heavily feeding the tank and actively adding KNO3 to keep the nitrates at +/- 3 ppm. The tank is currently consuming about 1.5 ppm of NO3 every day. I think what's happening is the extra feeding is increasing the available phosphates and this is promoting desirable algal and coral growth, thus consuming both NO3 and PO4 in the process and hopefully outcompeting the dinoflagellates as a side effect. I've been tracking the phosphates daily and they are raising and holding steady at about 0.03 +/- 0.02. If I notice the phosphates dropping I'll just throw an extra couple pinches of food or an extra mysis cube. I see a few very small patches of fluffy turf type algae pop up underneath the stringy brown dinoflagellates in some nooks and crannies of the liverock. I think that's encouraging. I can add more snails to deal with that if the Foxface doesn't eat it up first. The macros in the sump seem to be growing and driving up the pH trend, it had been suppressed by about -.1 for the last few weeks. I've also had my calcium and alkalinity dosing off throughout this ordeal as consumption seemed to stop. It's been almost steady for a few weeks now but I think it's finally dropping. This would, in my opinion, indicate that the coral are kicking back into growth mode and consuming alkalinity. I'll continue to monitor and bring dosing back online as needed. One thing I have noticed is there is hardly any of the dinoflagellates in the sump. There is some green looking stuff on the heaters in the return chamber but that's been there for months and hasn't really done much, I assume it's a harmless cyano. I haven't dosed any Vibrant in 17 days. I really hope the bacteria from it are reaching their end of life and it's effects on the system will continue to diminish over time.

It's hard to discern in photos so I don't really have any to post but I'll keep updating this thread as I battle this nightmare.

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Old 06-15-2017, 12:46 PM   #147
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FTS 06/15/2017:


It's been about three weeks since I updated this thread so I figured it was time for a quick run-down of what's been going on with the tank and how the battle with dinoflagellates is going.

I was kidding myself thinking that just additional feeding was helping with the dinos. I kept feeding and feeding and checking with the Hannah Phosphorus ULR checker and was consistently seeing 0 or 1. ZERO PHOSPHATES. ZILCH.

I finally bit the bullet and bought some AquaVitro Activate phosphorus additive and I've been dosing up to .1 every day for the last couple of days and this time... this time I think I see a decrease in the dinos. It seems like the tank is soaking up about 1 ppm NO3 and .05 ppm PO4 daily. I definitely see some more polyp extension and LOTS of growth in the refugium. I'm really hoping this is the path I need to keep following. What really needs to happen is the addition of a few more fish to more naturally increase the bio-load so I can move away from having to dose both nitrates and phosphates.

Last night I added 2 packs of 5280 pods from algaebarn.com and refreshed my CUC with 100 Dwarf Ceriths, 23 Nassarius vibex, 38 Florida Ceriths, 25 Assorted Hermits, 25 Nerites and 1 Fighting Conch.

Florida Fighting Conch (2.5-3" long):


I'm also starting a dosing regimen of live phytoplankton daily to help feed the zooplankton which, hopefully, are playing a role in helping to diminish the dinoflagellates.

Alk has bottomed out at 8.1 for the last 3 weeks with no dosing. I'm seeing slight growth in the coral, just not enough to soak up the alkalinity in the water and require dosing. I'll just keep the calcium and alkalinity dosers off until I see the need to turn them back on.

The refugium is packed with red and green macros that are growing like crazy and proving to be quite the breeding ground for pods, worms and all sorts of tiny little zooplankton. I need to trim it back, but I hate to pull it out, it's looking really neat.

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Old 06-23-2017, 8:15 AM   #148
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Quick photo for you guys... This Pink Sand Dollar Montipora (maybe porites?) has had some serious growth and polyp extension lately!


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Old 06-26-2017, 6:27 PM   #149
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Quick and dirty FTS:



Things are looking MUCH better lately.

DINO BATTLE: The dinoflagellates have all but faded and fade more and more every day, although a few patches of cyano have popped up but seem to come and go... Not a problem for now. The NO3 and PO4 levels are, fingers crossed, starting to hold steady at 2-5 ppm and .06-.07. I'll have to dose, I'm sure, but the tank is starting to find equilibrium.

CORAL: I mounted up a few of the frags that were still on the frag rack a few days ago. Pretty happy with the coral placement so far. NEED MORE! The corals are all looking happy with color and polyp extension returning after our battle with the dinos.

DOSING: I've been dosing 40 ml live phytoplankton daily along with 4 ml of Acropower. Nothing else is going in the tank but food at this point. The coral are clearly growing, it's evident but the system just isn't using any appreciable amount of alkalinity or calcium. Still holding off for the alk to drop below 8 to start dosing.

LIGHTING: After watching a few of the new @Bulk Reef Supply videos and doing some more research, I decided that I would raise up the T5 fixture, as I feel like I was blasting too much PAR into the tank with my nutrient levels and it lowered my PAR readings from 500+ at the top of the liverock to around 300-400.

REFUGIUM: Growing macros like wildfire. Pods, worms, snails and all sorts of life shows up more and more. Everytime I look in the fuge (nightly... it's fun!) I see something new.

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Old 06-28-2017, 12:48 PM   #150
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Does your system have a "copepod reactor"? Mine does!



I haven't been running any GFO in this reactor, but it's been kept online with water slowly flowing through it and it's filled to the brim with copepods! It pulls from the manifold leaving the return and dumps back into the refugium... Really neat to see!

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Old 06-28-2017, 2:16 PM   #151
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wow that is a ton of pods. Really cool. I had to go look at mine and sadly i didnt see any.

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Old 06-28-2017, 2:57 PM   #152
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wow that is a ton of pods. Really cool. I had to go look at mine and sadly i didnt see any.
I think a lot of it has to do with the phytoplankton I dose daily into the return compartment of the sump. The return manifold pushes the highly concentrated phytoplankton dosed water through the reactors and back into the refugium as well as to the display.

I'm not sure what I should do with them... I could dump them into the display every so often, but I think i'll just keep letting them breed in there and hope they make it from there into the refugium and then into the display.

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Old 06-28-2017, 11:16 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by zachxlutz View Post
Does your system have a "copepod reactor"? Mine does!



I haven't been running any GFO in this reactor, but it's been kept online with water slowly flowing through it and it's filled to the brim with copepods! It pulls from the manifold leaving the return and dumps back into the refugium... Really neat to see!
I wish I had that issue!
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Old 06-29-2017, 2:56 PM   #154
zachxlutz zachxlutz is offline
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I wish I had that issue!
It's a pretty neat "issue" to have! How's your stuff going? You should come check out the tank sometime and see how your old T5 light fixture is performing.

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Old 06-29-2017, 11:08 PM   #155
mattgee87 mattgee87 is offline
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Dude I'd love to come by, throw in some pods to seed my tank and it's a deal lol


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