View Full Version : ozone use


jmaneyapanda
08-02-2006, 10:49 AM
Does any out there use ozone? I am looking into using it, but cannot figure an appropriate way to assimilate it safely to my system. Anybody have any insight? Complaints? Advice?

mojo
08-02-2006, 11:27 AM
I use ozone and really like it. I created a ozone injection port in my beckett skimmer (basically, just a T input, so that it gets sucked in). I do monitor ORP from time to time, but my philosophy is to use as little as possible to get the job done, and you don't have to worry about too much in the system. I use about 15-20mg/hr for my 300g and it seems to keep things disease free and the water clear.

Let me know if you have any other questions...

jmaneyapanda
08-02-2006, 11:36 AM
I have a MRC MR-2 skimmer and cannot figure how to get the ozone to the beckett. How exactly did you do it? I think this would resolve my issues.

mojo
08-02-2006, 11:42 AM
I have a modified MR-2 as well. I had some scrap 3/4" acrylic, so made three holes in a block and then tapped them for 1/4" NPT threads, then screwed that into my needle valve and then a John Guest fitting for my ozone into one of the other holes - the last one is for regular air input.

Since those aren't parts that everyone has sitting around, you could look at the design that Andy has on his web page or buy one from him. Basically, you'll just want something that gets the ozone close to the input airstream. Also- you'll still need a small airpump to push air through the ozone generator and to the skimmer.

jmaneyapanda
08-02-2006, 12:38 PM
What ozone generator are you using? 15-20 mg/hr was a lot less than I was anticipating, but like you said, less is more. Do you have any GAC block to prevent the ozone from escaping?

mojo
08-02-2006, 1:17 PM
I just use the Red Sea Aquazone 100mg/hr (http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RS3633) unit, turned down to ~25 or so. I don't use the air dryer (it only takes a couple days to be exhausted). It's a pain to re-dry it, but you lose about 50% efficiency, so I just bump up to compensate.

I was going to do a full-blown controller, but a foul'd ORP probe concerns me - I'd rather run it lower and not chance over-doing it.

I'm not convinced that GAC actually removes ozone. I'm not a chemist, but GAC works based on mechanical filtration at the molecular level. Ozone is very unstable (O2 is trying to release that 3rd ozone atom), so I don't see how adding a mechanical filtration to absorb something that will break apart in a few minutes anyway will make a difference. So... I don't run carbon. But do realize that my MR-2 has a 4-ft extension (lending to a lot of blow-off) and then it goes through a 120g sump before returning to the main tank, so it may be gone before it's a problem- hard to say. I personally don't think it'd be a problem even in a smaller system...

jmaneyapanda
08-02-2006, 2:27 PM
Do you think the air dryer fails so quickly because of the humidity of air the air pump pushes in? From what I understand, and what you've said, it is much more effecient with the dryer.
What do you mean by four foot extension off the skimmer? Are you talking about an additional riser? My skimmer runs into my sump, but plumbs up towards the surface (to eliminate microbubble problems), and there is also some baffles in the sump. Do you think this would alleviate this conditon of ozone blowoff.

I have always run carbon, but it sounds like ozone is a much better way to get what I want (clean water, plus reduced pathogens). Do you happen to have a picture of your setup?

Thanks so much, youve been very helpful. BTW, it will be for a 210.

mojo
08-02-2006, 2:41 PM
Yeah- the air dryer must be exhausting fast because of the humidity. It probably doesn't help that the humidity in my fish room in the basement is quite high. I'm sure it's more efficient with the dryer, but after you put those beads in the oven once or twice, try to refill the tube, and then have silica beads going everywhere, you'll quickly see why not many people run them....

re/ extension - I made an extension to the main 6" diameter body of the skimmer, so that the skimmer is (or will soon be- this is a change in progress) 6 feet tall with two becketts. For what it's worth, I had a 6 inch extension on it for the past year with ozone and no problems. I can only guess that with more surface and bubble interaction, more ozone gets blown off, and I would guess the same with your setup.

I don't have any recent pictures because I'm transitioning from large pumps and a 100g horse-trough sump to smaller main pump and a 120g acrylic sump; it's almost done (hopefully by this weekend), so I can take pictures then.

You're welcome to come and view things in person, though, if you want to check out what works for me.

One more thing to note - it's easy to see the difference in ozone use when you empty out tank water in a white salt bucket. If I don't run ozone for a week (as was the case when I swapped out my sumps) vs. running ozone, there's a very clear (pun intended) difference between the water in both...

jmaneyapanda
08-02-2006, 3:27 PM
Thanks. I plan on using two becketts, but no risers. Do you think this would be enough to vent the ozone? I know you cant give absolute answers, im just looking for advice.
I think it'll be the way I go, I just need to figure out the beckett adjustment. I need to scour the MRC webpage, I couldnt find anything like that the first time I looked. Thanks again, and I let you know what I come up with.

tsciarini
08-02-2006, 5:22 PM
http://myreefcreations.com/psaccessories.htm

Its about 3/4 of the way down the page... look for "Ozone Port. Accept Ozone in your skimmer. All skimmers are ozone safe." Andy sells them for $12

mojo
08-02-2006, 5:30 PM
You'll probably be fine without a riser, although I'm only guessing. Like I said - I had only a 6" riser for the past year with no problems.

Adjustment of a beckett is really something that can only be a show and tell kinda thing, or learned by plenty of experience - it's hard to read about it.

jmaneyapanda
08-21-2006, 1:28 PM
Hey Mojo:

Well I got my ozonizer and am ready to roll, but just want to check a few things before I fire it up.
First, you mentioned you use only 15-20 mg/hr- Is this the dialed in output, or projected output? I know you said you dont use the air drier anymore, and that will reduce ozone production, so I was wondering what your fifgure represents.
Secondly, I bought the ozonizer with the ORP monitor. What ORP do you think I should set it at? The manual gives a suggestion, but I was curious what you think or aim for?
Thanks again.

mojo
08-21-2006, 7:59 PM
I have a 100mg ozonizer, and it's currently set to 30%, but no air dryer, so I'm guessing I'm getting around 20mg/hr. You can play around with the amount until you find the point that your water is clear (do the white salt bucket test I mentioned above).

I wouldn't worry about the ORP, but if you want to set a high point, I'd probably choose 360-380ish. I feel best when I see my ORP around 400 (when I measure it), but I wouldn't trust the probe for that, so would probably have it cut out at around the above number....

jmaneyapanda
08-22-2006, 7:16 AM
Thanks, Ill let you know how it goes.

jmaneyapanda
08-30-2006, 10:43 AM
OK, I lied, I have one more question for you mojo. On your beckett with the ozone fitting, how much do you have to fiddle with tghe needle valve past where it is normally set? I dont know how much the input of ozone will effect the air flow. Do you have it set the same as the other injector?

mojo
08-30-2006, 10:49 AM
I made my own ozone injector (it's a T - just like yours). I tune the air intakes independently of the ozone. Air is sucking into those intakes, so as long as the ozone is close, it'll get in there. I do have an air pump that pushes through the ozone generator - you'll need a small one to make sure the ozone makes it out of the generator and up to the intake.

Make sense? Just get the ozone output close to the skimmer's air intake, and the rest will happen like it should.

jmaneyapanda
08-30-2006, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I dont think I made my question clear. I have the ozone generator and air pump set up, tubed to the ozone port with norprene. My question relates to this- I know the needles valve adjustment on the beckett is an art, not science. And tuning one in to create microbubbles is optimal. I have my non-ozone beckett dialed pretty well I think (about 1 turn from full open). However, on the beckett with the ozone port, it is still making quite large bubbles. Please note, I have not turned on the air pump or ozone generator yet, so the norprene line is just open to air (not even connected to any device yet). Once i have the air pump and ozonizer plumbed to the port and turned on, how significvantly do you think it will effect the dialing of the needle valve?

Am I making any sense?

mojo
08-30-2006, 12:14 PM
Ah. I'd recommend getting the large bubble problem solved first - just turn down the needle valve a bit until the bubbles get smaller - you might have to go pretty small. Turning on the air pump shouldn't make any difference as far as tuning goes - at least, it doesn't on mine. If you want to test it, turn on the air pump, but not the ozone...

jmaneyapanda
08-30-2006, 12:53 PM
got it. ill try that. but for my refernce, your needle valves are set at about the same setting, correct?

mojo
08-30-2006, 1:04 PM
Actually, I think they're a bit off, but I set them independently anyway - I really don't keep track of turns- just watch the bubbles and the height of the column in the chamber and adjust from there...

jmaneyapanda
09-04-2006, 9:56 AM
I have been re-tuning my skimmer, and have a bit of a situation. Even though I am using the same brand pump, I jumped from one injector to two. I have the skimmer running, with the ozonizer and pump plumbed, but currently, only the air pump running. Here's why- I have good foam production, but I have a alot of microbubbles ending up back in the tank- especially after a feeding. The skimmer reacts whenever soemthing organic goes in the tank, and "de-foams" for a little while. My concern is this- if I turn on the ozonizer, I am afriad the microbubbles will be ozone laden, and end in the tank with the fish and corals. This is bad, right? I am brainstorming different ways to resolve this microbubble issue.

tsciarini
09-04-2006, 1:40 PM
Youre likely getting more microbubbles because now you have twice the ammount of air injected to the skimmer (because you added a second injector). FYI, you'll get more production by increasing your skimmer volume before adding a second injector (ie adding an extension).

You shouldnt need to add the ozone to both injectors... one is enough. Adding "x" ammount of ozone to one injector or two injectors still equals "x".

The "de-foaming" is normal... it will go back to normal within an hour or so.

As long as your running your skimmer thru your sump and also injecting the appropriate dose of ozone, you shouldnt have to worry about ozone laden microbubbles... personally Id be more concerned with seeing the microbubbles in the display rather then if they still have ozone within them.

jmaneyapanda
09-04-2006, 2:06 PM
Thanks Tony, that put my mind at ease a little. I would've loved to put an extansion, but my skimmer is under the cabinet, so I have like 3" clearance with the standard MR-2. This is why I added the second injector. I wanted more skimming, and this was the only option available to me. I only have the ozone ported to 1 injector. I knew the de foaming was typical- I just noticed it coincide when I see the most microbubbles in the tank (as if some were "escaping" from the skimmer).
I run the skimmer through the sump, which is ridiculously agitated by the skimmer turnover, overflow lines, and refugium, so I do not think I could aerate it more if I tried.

And believe me, Microbubbles in the tank are worse than hair algae!! (not really, but you get my drift).