Please refer to the link below:
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14329561/detail.html

This is news that has a direct impact on the reefing community, especially to us locals. Many of you know the individual involved personally. I ask that everyone please keep their comments as reasonable/respectful as you can. This is not an easy topic of discussion.
We would like to keep all conversation within this thread. The BoD and moderators team will be removing any additional threads started on this topic and refer them to this thread.
As far as sponsorship, the BoD will discuss matters at a later time. This is fresh news and we will wait it out until more information is released.
Thank you.

I saw the story, but I don't know every ARC member, so I didn't relate it to anything.

What sponsorship is he involved with?

As a new member why bring up such a story somethings are best left to the courts.

As a new member why bring up such a story somethings are best left to the courts.
The news actually already hit the forums a couple hours ago. The initial response was to remove it and have an official announcement so that we can keep it from getting generated in multiple threads all over the boards. With news of this magnitude, we felt it better to remain within a single thread.
We aren't here to judge, you are correct, that is up to the courts. Our goal with this thread was to manage the topic within our forums.
Thanks for speaking up... and btw, welcome to the Atlanta Reef Club.

As a new member why bring up such a story somethings are best left to the courts.

Just curious of why do you want it to be left to the courts? This is NOT a condemnation of guilt post, it is a notice of post that is publically available.

I ask that everyone act responsibly on this thread. Other than shock, there is not much to say, so lets just do it in silence. There is a wife and children involved. We have a duty to be mature, so lets not disappoint each other.

People are going to talk about it so might as well organize it. It is a serious story and it does effect us at least on a limited basis. Not only is he a local businessman of a reef business (My Reef Creations), but he is an outspoken sponser of ARC and held former office in our organization. People know this guy (me included). I only knew him in passing, but still this is a shock to me.

If these charges hold true, I am quite sure we will distance ourselves from his association with our club, his company and him personally.

as we should, this is sickening! If this is in fact true. I'm sorry but personally I can not and will not moderate anything that has to do with this story.

I realize this is a illness and if this person is in proven to be guilty, he is sick indeed.

We as adults need to look at the other side of the coin: the kids who play online. Many are complete innocents, but there are also 12-14 year old girls who get a kick out of playing tease-games on the internet, believing it all goes *poof* when the power button is turned off.

Please monitor your kids' internet usage. I'm going to do more to monitor my 13 year old son. (Although he's pretty much grounded from any kind of electronc device other than a vacuum cleaner until his grades improve.)

We need to raise the age limit on these boards. I wrote this many months ago in regards to one of the younger members. It was alarming to me then, and its even more so now given this news... We need to be proactive as a club and take efforts to protect some of the minors that roam these boards...


Its actually dangerous to the kid and to ARC to let the child run rampant on the boards. I'm not sure if it was this kid or another that showed up on Cameron's doorstep without supervision. However, the hazards of pre-teen kids showing up to pick up free stuff at some random adult's house is obviously apparent and frankly its frightening.

Anyways, what isn't as obvious is that we have a responsibility to protect this kid from himself since his parents clearly aren't doing so. The last thing we want is for this kid to be lured into travelling to some freak's house in search of "free lighting" for his tank.

So I think its clear we have a moral obligation here, however there could be a legal duty as well. Although this area of the law isn't well established there is a possibility of liability on ARC's part where some harm befalls the child due to the disclosure of private information on these forums. There are a few common defenses, but neither seem altogether too applicable here.

Anyways, I think the most obvious solution would be to raise the requisite age to peruse these boards. Perhaps it should be raised to 18 or 16 with written parental consent. I'm not sure what the most effective solution might be, but I think something needs to be done. Of course we don't want to stifle young reefers, but there is a serious danger here and I think we should address it before anything should happen.

Unfortunately, and very reluctantly, I am forced to agree. If the BoD decides it, we probably can get Sharon to draft up something for parents of underaged kids to sign, reminding them of their responsibilities to maintain vigilance, etc. It also speaks to other issues, such as non-members on the boards.

Im sorry, but whole heartedly agree...

AFTER READING THIS , ANDY NEEDS TO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CLUB OR ANY OTHER CLUB. WHAT A SICK a A**

Snellville man arrested after online sex chats

By TIM EBERLY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 10/12/07

A Snellville man was arrested Friday afternoon on charges he had online sex chats with an undercover detective posing as a teenage girl, police said.

Police arrested Andrew Diass, 41, who identified himself as a Little League coach, on four counts of sexual exploitation of a child and booked him into the Walton County Jail, Loganville Police Chief Mike McHugh said.

RELATED LINK:
• More Gwinnett news



McHugh said the investigation into Diass began in May, when he began communicating with the detective in an online chat room, McHugh said. The detective posed as a 14-year-old girl.

They chatted about five times and, during at least three of those conversations, Diass set up a Web camera, got naked and fondled himself in front of it, McHugh said.

"We could not hear him talk, but you could see him moving," McHugh said.

Diass could not see or hear the detective because he did not use a Web camera, McHugh said.

The chief said Diass never tried to set up a meeting with the detective.

"I think he was under the misconception that if he did not come to meet her that he had not committed a crime," McHugh said. "Which, of course, is incorrect."

Bond has not been set for Diass, who was being held in the Walton County jail Friday night.
vIDEO OG THE ARREST
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/14329682/index.html

sad, very sad

i think you should have pmed the person in charge of sponsors. i think this is very humilating for the guy. just my opinion but i also think he should stay in jail for that.

seems like a lounge topic, if anything.

AFTER READING THIS , ANDY NEEDS TO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CLUB OR ANY OTHER CLUB. WHAT A SICK a A**

Snellville man arrested after online sex chats

By TIM EBERLY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 10/12/07

A Snellville man was arrested Friday afternoon on charges he had online sex chats with an undercover detective posing as a teenage girl, police said.

Police arrested Andrew Diass, 41, who identified himself as a Little League coach, on four counts of sexual exploitation of a child and booked him into the Walton County Jail, Loganville Police Chief Mike McHugh said.

RELATED LINK:
• More Gwinnett news



McHugh said the investigation into Diass began in May, when he began communicating with the detective in an online chat room, McHugh said. The detective posed as a 14-year-old girl.

They chatted about five times and, during at least three of those conversations, Diass set up a Web camera, got naked and fondled himself in front of it, McHugh said.

"We could not hear him talk, but you could see him moving," McHugh said.

Diass could not see or hear the detective because he did not use a Web camera, McHugh said.

The chief said Diass never tried to set up a meeting with the detective.

"I think he was under the misconception that if he did not come to meet her that he had not committed a crime," McHugh said. "Which, of course, is incorrect."

Bond has not been set for Diass, who was being held in the Walton County jail Friday night.
vIDEO OG THE ARREST
http://www.wsbtv.com/video/14329682/index.html

How Is That A Lounge Topic

'cause I don't come here to read about some dude getting arrested for that. Sponsor or not. I come here to read about reef-keeping. Other random stuff goes in the lounge (like that creep).

'cause I don't come here to read about some dude getting arrested for that. Sponsor or not. I come here to read about reef-keeping. Other random stuff goes in the lounge (like that creep).

my nephew played ball on this guys team. thanks...anyone with kids is glad for the info. please dont remove this thread.obviously this is important information,when this perpetrator is an integral part of the cub.

at a total loss for words

This information is under Club Announcements posted by the BOD for all to read and comment if needed.

BRad, this thread is going to be moved tothe centeral spot this talk about this event that Tony and I set up last night upon hearning the news. The BoD would like to keep all this information in one spot and comments there as well. PM if you have any questions.

Here is the link to the club Announcements.. I am sorry I didnt see it posted there before I posted this. Please move to the correct forum
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8640

I am with Steve on this one. Due to the situation at hand we need to have some kind of control in place. When I was an officer in florida I was a volunteer with a group called cyber angels / cyber cops. And I am sorry to say

I assisted in arresting those who would surprise you for the actions they took. I am 40 year old male who is 6' but play a mean 9th grade girl when I want to catch the bad guys.

In all seriousness we need to put our heads together and have a safty feature in place for the members of the club.

I agree, but on the same token I think this should be on the main page . For alot pf people like myself that have problems getting the forum link to work and not being able to get to the main forum page.
As far as MRC goes I dont think they need to have anything to do with this site. I am a father of 3 , 2 of which are girls.

I think this is a serious issue for this club. Whether he is found guilty or innocent by the courts is irrelevant. The court system is not without faults. The fact that the accusations are there should be enough for this club to walk away from his sponsorship. We have a responsibility to ensure we do not endanger our members or visitors. We need to put age restrictions in place or parent / guardian approval for minors. I believe parents should be responsible for their childrens activities, ultimately. That being said, we should not be reckless in our associations. Just my opinion.

i had to email a club member to see where this was hidden,make it accessible please.

i think you should have pmed the person in charge of sponsors. i think this is very humilating for the guy. just my opinion but i also think he should stay in jail for that.


Are you serious!!! How do you think his wife and kids feel! And everyone who bought his products...Eh, I'm done.

wow this is crazy...I agree sponsorship should be removed immediatly and I am glad you made this public. Hopefully his family will make it through this...its not there fault there dad is sick.

As far as sponsorship goes, the BoD will make an official announcement as more details come forth. At this point no one knows enough to propose a vote. There is much more involved in this than just a news story. None of us know any details other than what has hit the news... we should take our time on this and see what happens. There are more people that are affected by this and we don't want to start making fast changes without knowing enough information. Until more knowledge comes up, I think we should support the family and support the club and make official decisions at the right time.

I support your decision Tony!

Understandable. Proceed with caution in that regard as you will. His sponsorship and affiliation is embarrassing, but nothing more.

However, I'm sure though that the majority of members would appreciate it if the BOD would get together in an emergency meeting to figure this out as soon as possible. I would also like the BOD to seriously consider my age limitation proposal post haste.

Tony,
I think the majority would suggest caution as you have to make sure things are done right

Understandable. Proceed with caution in that regard as you will. His sponsorship and affiliation is embarrassing, but nothing more.

However, I'm sure though that the majority of members would appreciate it if the BOD would get together in an emergency meeting to figure this out as soon as possible. I would also like the BOD to seriously consider my age limitation proposal post haste.I second Jins idea.

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8654

I ask that everyone act responsibly on this thread. Other than shock, there is not much to say, so lets just do it in silence. There is a wife and children involved. We have a duty to be mature, so lets not disappoint each other.

Sorry, these are not courtesy's I extend to pedaphiles, My son worked in his shop one summer when he was 16, my perspective is different. So brother inlaw protectionism doesn't cut it here.

I don't see the connection between this issue and the age limit on these boards. I personally don't support putting an age limit for this forum...I think personality issues with specific forum members shouldn't bias against mature posters that are younger (I can think of two of the top of my head that are 15-16 and are more mature than some of us).

On the other issue, I have no comment. I feel sorry for his family and anyone he may have had inappropriate relations with.

double post...

First, innocent until proven guilty. We can suspend sponsership pending the outcome, but IMO we have to wait and let him have his day in court. More than once has the police been overzealous with their version of the facts. It sounds pretty air tight, but we don't know the specifics and until we do I say we just leave well enough alone. So before we break out the torches, lets make sure he did what he is accused of doing. If he did it, then we do what we can to make sure his ARC connections are done for.

As for minors on the board, I am with balagan. This has nothing to do with that topic. If Andy was courting underage people via PMs on the forums maybe, but we can't shut down every forum just because a kid might talk to an adult. You might want to limit their PMs if they are under age so everything is public, but I don't see any reason to block them from the boards save the other reasons mentioned in other threads. We should be at least some place in this club fostering a love of reef keeping. The parents should be policing the content IMO not us.

Cam-

The concept of eliminating PMs for minors (and non-members) is an excellent idea and would make things much more managable from a safety standpoint. I still think a letter sent to and signed by the parents making them aware that it is a public forum that their child is participating on, etc., etc. is a good idea.

Let's seperate the minor's conversation from this one. It is an item to be discussed at the BoD meeting next week (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8654).

Cam-

The concept of eliminating PMs for minors (and non-members) is an excellent idea and would make things much more managable from a safety standpoint. I still think a letter sent to and signed by the parents making them aware that it is a public forum that their child is participating on, etc., etc. is a good idea.



Everything he just said, Ditto!

Please let's discuss this at the meeting!

I believe that this event touches on a larger issue. If this forum has not taken steps to safeguard its members from ANY kind of predation, stalking, or dangerous exposure of personal information, this incident is a wakeup call. Addiction (in its many forms) is insidious and more pervasive than you might think. It is not just the underage who may be at risk. As a 30-year recovering alcoholic I know the depths and extents to which an addiction can drive a person. I believe that we as a club have chance to take positive, deliberated actions to improve the safety of all its members and all the registered members of this forum. I agree with many others who have commented here in that over-reaction does not help, but that considered and reasoned actions by the BoD will.

Well said

Man, I just heard/read about this. All I can say is that this is crazy...

The concept of eliminating PMs for minors (and non-members) is an excellent idea and would make things much more managable from a safety standpoint. I still think a letter sent to and signed by the parents making them aware that it is a public forum that their child is participating on, etc., etc. is a good idea.

Good idea as well. Parental permission is never a bad idea.

As a 30-year recovering alcoholic I know the depths and extents to which an addiction can drive a person. I believe that we as a club have chance to take positive, deliberated actions to improve the safety of all its members and all the registered members of this forum. I agree with many others who have commented here in that over-reaction does not help, but that considered and reasoned actions by the BoD will.I just don't want to see a bunch of restrictions placed on the forums because we over reacted which tends to happen a lot in this country. I stopped flying public planes not because of the terrorists, but our reaction to them. We went WAY too far on this whole airport security thing. Chances of you being in a terror attack in this country are far less than your chance of getting hit by lightning... twice... and dieing from it and that was before the security was "upgraded". I would rather send a check from the club to a relief organization and actually save a life than spend time and effort trying to stop something that likely would never occur here. Turning off PMs for kids and getting some parental permission solves the problem and absolves the club. Should be pretty easy to do as well.

+1 razmatic. Nicely said.

Some people disagree on whether there's a need to protect children on these forums... That's fine, take it to the BoD meeting. There's no need to argue or debate its efficacy at this point. Lets keep this thread on topic.

I am stunned at the news! As already commented many times we need to do what we can to distance our club from this person and his sponsor status stat. Later we can watch see what the court and filings reveal.
:mad2: :sick: :yikes:

Just heard about this...all I can say is wow!

There shouldn't be any age restrictions, that's just nonsense.

MRC should atleast be put on "suspension" until proven either way. No fauly in that.

I don't believe there should be age restrictions. This is a great hobby that promotes education, responsibility and pride of ownership and I wish I had gotten into it when I was in my teens.

But I do believe minors should be monitored for their own safety. Aren't moderators able to view all PM's? If so, it doesn't seem like it would be necessary to eliminate PM's if they can be viewed/moderated. Take away PM's and you're going to see a lot more posts that are nothing more than one-on-one conversations cluttering up the forum.

I like the idea of a membership agreement signed by a parent or guardian and maybe it could have a clause stating that all communications (even private messages) are subject to review by moderators.

suspension is a good idea to cool the air until the rest of the info comes out. But I would highly suggest everyone who has an idea for this go to the BOD meeting since all were invited. That way if questions are asked you can properly answer.

I was just reading up on this site as someone posted a link to the story on another forum I'm a mod at. I'll keep my opinions about leaving the sponsorship to myself as I'm not a part of your club. However I have seen a lot of comments about age restrictions and such on your forum. When I signed up it didn't ask my age at all. Hopefully your admins are aware of COPPA laws in regards to collecting information from children under 13. Granted the reef forums might be exempt from that as the site isn't "directed at children under the age of 13", but there are laws in regards to collecting information from people under 13. (I noticed you have to give phone and address to sign up here) Might be something to look at anyway.

Good luck with this situation, this story is getting a lot of coverage on other reef boards and people are surely looking over here as people know that he's from the atlanta area.

Aren't moderators able to view all PM's? If so, it doesn't seem like it would be necessary to eliminate PM's if they can be viewed/moderated.
You know how long it would take for all PMs to be pre-read before they were delivered? :)

Besides, and more importantly, if mods are able to read all Private Messages (which I don't know if they are or not) - then they aren't Private Messages.

I don't even know if system administrators can read PMs, but I do know that they don't, and won't, and for more than just logistical reasons. There is an obligation to keep that information private.

:roll: No... admins, mods, BoD, etc... no one can read PMs but the sender/receiver.

That's what I thought. :) Disabling PMs for minors would be the only choice, if that were to be the path decided to go down.

I don't think that disabling pm's are necessary. I like the "permission slip" for the parents to sign. This way adults are aware of what their children are doing. Maybe we can have an option for the parents to request that pm's not be allowed? Although, this would disturb the logistics of the forum (ie. conversations that should be done over pm would be held over an open foum)

Remember, disabling pm's does not stop anyone from emailing!

Befor trying to solve a problem, it helps to know what the problem is. Offering solutions prior to that only adds problems.

The only problem I've seen is the one that Coralnutz brings up...are we in compliance with existing regulations?

It's the libertarian in me that is resistant to additional restrictions. Leave parenting up to parents. We have the obligation to protect a persons personal information, but beyond that we would be restricting access to information that anyone should have access to.

Oh, this makes me feel awful. Terrible.

Wow, to say I'm in shock would be an understatement! I hope his family can recover from this and move forward with their lives!

I would just ask ourselves... Do "we", as a club, have responsiblities to make sure we are not liable in anyway or have and "obligation" to ensure we make this site a "safe place" for all members, age or otherwise...???

:roll: No... admins, mods, BoD, etc... no one can read PMs but the sender/receiver.

Okay, then I misunderstood. A couple months ago when I was having a back 'n forth with another member via PM's and sought out a moderator for assistance, he said he could see the history of what had transpired. I took that to mean he could see the PM's.

I don't mean to nitpick, but being that this is a public forum the data has to be stored somewhere and is not encrypted by any means. If it be via flatfiles or databases, it still could be read by someone with admin rights to the server. I don't mean to nitpick, but anything on this site could be read from the backend.

Working in the IT field and dealing with hacked webservers, lots of which are due to crummy forum code, I could easily go and read many peoples PM's on lots of different forums that are hosted with the company I work for if I so desired.

You know how long it would take for all PMs to be pre-read before they were delivered? :)

Besides, and more importantly, if mods are able to read all Private Messages (which I don't know if they are or not) - then they aren't Private Messages.Yes mods can read PM's if the person that does the php for the site has given them that priveldege. When I was a mod on another site we had that ability to read PM's, we didnt because of privacy reasons. Only times we did was when money was involved and there was a discrepancy. In short yes the PM's can be read.

Okay, then I misunderstood. A couple months ago when I was having a back 'n forth with another member via PM's and sought out a moderator for assistance, he said he could see the history of what had transpired. I took that to mean he could see the PM's.
In that instance, you (and the other member) copied messages and sent them to me and the two other moderators that were involved.
Even from the Admin console, we don't have access to view member PMs. As mentioned before, its a PRIVATE message...
With what some people say publicly, I wouldnt even want to know what's said in PMs. lol

is this the store in locust grove

Well... aparently from the two posts above, there is some way to read them (tho I wasn't aware of it).
Either way, like I said... I have no interest in reading peoples PMs. I have enough of my own to sort thru. Privacy is privacy. I, nor any other mod, don't have any business trying to hack into someone elses PM box and if I found out this was happening, they would be removed.

Well... aparently from the two posts above, there is some way to read them (tho I wasn't aware of it).
Either way, like I said... I have no interest in reading peoples PMs. I have enough of my own to sort thru. Privacy is privacy. I, nor any other mod, don't have any business trying to hack into someone elses PM box and if I found out this was happening, they would be removed.

Was only a suggestion as it related to minors. If a parent or guardian signed a permission agreement when an underaged member joins with the understanding that PM's of minors would be monitored for their protection, I would think that would be a positive thing more than a breach of privacy. I would also think that an unscrupulous person would hesitate to make inappropriate contact with a minor if he/she knew that the PM's of minors are monitored. This wouldn't mean that every message would be scrutinized; it could mean that the messages would be subject to monitoring. (Like those messages you get on some customer service phone calls: "this call may be recorded for quality control purposes.)

Of course, a PM is just one small issue. An internet savvy individual or minor would be able to use any manner of communication programs... MSN Messenger, AIM, Yahoo Messenger, email, etc.

Wow, to say I'm in shock would be an understatement! I hope his family can recover from this and move forward with their lives!

craboo has an extremely good point i think one thing to remember here is the family.his wife is a sweet person who new nothing of these exploits,nor his two children.i am fairly certain she will be relying on funds from the sale or future of myreef creations to support her family.they are definately the innocent victims in all of this.so really anything directed at this business does nothing against anyone but the family ,since their is a very good chance he will be going away for some time.

<cut>I would also think that an unscrupulous person would hesitate to make inappropriate contact with a minor if he/she knew that the PM's of minors are monitored.<cut>

Linda, the unfortunate truth about sexual addicts is that they are addicts. Even knowledge of monitoring would not keep a sexual addict from using PM's to seek minors. I am aware (through an AA acquaintance) of someone on probation from an illegal pornography charge that is now serving 10-15 because he failed a condition of his probation: random lie-detector tests. He failed, they searched his computer, and found more illegal porn. One might think that being subject to random lie-detector tests would be a greater deterrent that monitoring PM's. Sadly this is not the case.

I am clear that it is almost impossible to protect anyone from a truly determined person. However, I do believe that the club (i.e, the BoD) can take reasonable steps to increase awareness of those in the club and those who wish to join, and to increase the club's adherence to governing law and regulation. We can only do our best, knowing that our best may still not be good enough.

craboo has an extremely good point i think one thing to remember here is the family.his wife is a sweet person who new nothing of these exploits,nor his two children.i am fairly certain she will be relying on funds from the sale or future of myreef creations to support her family.they are definately the innocent victims in all of this.so really anything directed at this business does nothing against anyone but the family ,since their is a very good chance he will be going away for some time.

That is the risk he took when partaking in these activities. Why is it that we should now have to support his family because he screwed up?

Andy was doing just fine financially before mrc; for his family's sake, let's hope he put something into savings. More than likely, he will not serve any time. He will pay hefty fines and serve community service; if anything, he will serve minimal time.

Actually, the prosecutor there is getting 3-5 years for people that plea bargain, 20 years for people that fight it...this is one of a series of stings that have been set up. It is safe to say that Andy will probably not be running MRC in the future, and the family will suffer psychologically and economically.

You do not have to support the family if people don't want to, but Curtis is correct, they did nothing wrong.

One thing I read was the prosecuting attorney is getting pleas of 3-5 years to serve in most of these cases. Don't know if it will happen this time, but it very well could. I thought the wife brought in most of the money? Or, that was my understanding 5 or so years ago. I could be wrong though.:unsure:

I thought the wife brought in most of the money? Or, that was my understanding 5 or so years ago. I could be wrong though.:unsure:


Again, Please - lets try to keep the family out of this tragedy as much as WE can.

Again, Please - lets try to keep the family out of this tragedy as much as WE can.


You're right. The fam is innocent, no point dragging them further down than they already are. Must be difficult as it is.

I think the permission slip or I should say the form that will let the parents know they are online will be good. It will at least protect the club legally if not morally by the club taking some proper form of action to show the club does care for the actions taken within the internet service it provides when online

I believe Andy's wife is very successful and actually the bread winner in the family until recently when MRC took off. I think the family will be financially fine.

Again, Please - lets try to keep the family out of this tragedy as much as WE can.
Sorry............

I believe Andy's wife is very successful and actually the bread winner in the family until recently when MRC took off. I think the family will be financially fine.
That's all I was trying to say; not trying to drag the family into it. Once again, sorry.

This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy

This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy

Yeah, why are we hiding this?

Yeah, why are we hiding this?
Simple, Andy (Myreef=user name) was a part of the "inner circle" of this club, and once a friend of mine (no longer) and the "inner circle must find this whole mess to be an embarrassment. As do I, as well as being angry.

Mafia,
I do not think this has been "hidden" anywhere by the "inner circle". Since I brought what Andy did up to Tony and the BoD, we have taken the approach that we think that members need to be made aware of what is going on. There was a clear and thought out choice that we would create a thread here to discuss the topic that all can see. There have been 1,862 views to this topic so I doubt it is hidden. We just felt that it was more fitting that RC or some other group grab the pitch forks and call out the mob. We much rather give a civilized place for people to find out the news and be respectful of eachother and to some extent Andy and his family. It is no secret that I did not care for Andy either, but I also do not think that a linching infront of the courthouse adds much to the fire that he is already going to have to face. I must say though, I am proud that this thread has stayed as on topic as it has (for the most part) and how well the members have respected eachother during this time.

Brandon- This thread should appear on the main page just as all other threads do. Because this does not, it appears hidden. As you can tell from the posts on this thread, we are mature enough to handle a discussion about Andy and the allegations brought against him. Not having this show up on the main page for all to see does seems as though Andy is being protected just as Mafia suggests. Would the same protection be forwarded if the same were to happen to me or Mafia? I doubt it.

This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy
It's the club's business what it decides to do regarding a local sponsor who has by all evidence available committed a crime. We need to take appropriate steps to distance ourselves from the situation and that's a decision that is quite a private matter.

On the public end of things, it's not our place to spread the word that the owner of My Reef Creations is a pedophile as an organization. It's one thing for people to discuss this on Reef Central or The Reef Tank as individuals with opinions, but I would think that an organization might find itself in an actionable state (NOT a good thing with the MACNA $$$ coming in) if we publish any kind of statement declaring Andy as anything other than "accused" until such time as he is convicted or pleads guilty.

If the club does decide to make a public statement other than simply yanking his sponsorship and membership, we should be very careful to not state anything other than the facts of the case.

I respectfully do not agree with putting this on the front page.

At this time, ARC is very public especially due to the hype around MACNA. By blasting this on the front page, we are essentially broadcasting that ARC was somehow associated with this person. Even by distancing ourselves, by mere association of the two names in the same sentence it casts a negatvie light. Putting this info on the front page can easily be a turn off to prospective new members.

This issue is not what the club is about. He no longer poses a threat to anyone so putting this on the front page serves no purpose beyond detracting from our true intent...reefing.

Just my two cents.

THe ARC is not being protected by hiding this thread, Andy is.

I am not suggesting that the ARC makes a statement regarding him, but just to make this thread more easily available for people to read (ie front page when someone posts, just like the other posts)

THe ARC is not being protected by hiding this thread, Andy is.
To what end would you make Andy's situation public on the ARC boards?

To draw attention to the fact that he's the owner of MRC? Is he the only employee? Is it necessary to destroy a business that his family may need or want to sell? Is it really relevant to the issue?

To expose him as a pedophile? Not legal since he's not convicted yet.

To draw attention to the story as a whole? Not appropriate content for us to publicly promote, in my opinion. What's next? Everyone associated with the club who gets a DUI? How about felons? Solicitation? Where does the line get drawn? We're not in the business of calling out the dirty laundry of our members and let's not get into that business, please.

In point of fact, drawing the issue into the court of public opinion is counter-productive to the goal of punishing offenders as such exposure complicates and often derails efforts at prosecution. It's not like the ARC site is a waypoint of public internet access, but the principle is there.

. Would the same protection be forwarded if the same were to happen to me or Mafia? I doubt it.
Ding...Ding ding, I think we have a bingo! Just by disagreeing with the BOD I risk being banned.
It should also be noted that his sponsor banner and link have been removed without any statement from the BOD as to it's disposition. Suspended, revoked or otherwise.......

Ding...Ding ding, I think we have a bingo! Just by disagreeing with the BOD I risk being banned.
On what? What makes your opinion so dangerous?
It should also be noted that his sponsor banner and link have been removed without any statement from the BOD as to it's disposition. Suspended, revoked or otherwise.......
Other than possibly supplying a message in the members only section, why should they make a public fanfare about it? It's not like any reason they could cite other than "just to distance ourselves" could be used. They can't say "Because he's a pedophile".

Ding...Ding ding, I think we have a bingo! Just by disagreeing with the BOD I risk being banned.
It should also be noted that his sponsor banner and link have been removed without any statement from the BOD as to it's disposition. Suspended, revoked or otherwise.......
CORRECTION
Myreef is still listed as a sponsor.....please accept my apology

That is a good point, I didn't even realize that this thread wasn't appearing as updated on the main page. I'm sure the BoD has something to say about it, right? :unsure:

To what end would you make Andy's situation public on the ARC boards?

To draw attention to the fact that he's the owner of MRC? Is he the only employee? Is it necessary to destroy a business that his family may need or want to sell? Is it really relevant to the issue?

To expose him as a pedophile? Not legal since he's not convicted yet.

To draw attention to the story as a whole? Not appropriate content for us to publicly promote, in my opinion. What's next? Everyone associated with the club who gets a DUI? How about felons? Solicitation? Where does the line get drawn? We're not in the business of calling out the dirty laundry of our members and let's not get into that business, please.

In point of fact, drawing the issue into the court of public opinion is counter-productive to the goal of punishing offenders as such exposure complicates and often derails efforts at prosecution. It's not like the ARC site is a waypoint of public internet access, but the principle is there.

To what end would you protect Andy?

Remember, this was on the NEWS! It is not something that we are fabricating...it is fact. Andy was arrested. He has been charged. He will be prosecuted. Hiding this is not going to make anything better or make it go away. If he has a difficult time selling his business, that's his problem. He risked that. Guilty or not, he did do something...this something has gotten him this attention.

You seem to conviniently ignore the fact that I never said that we should call him out as a pedophile or announce ANYTHING. I simply stated that this thread should not be hidden. Todd's thread about him leaving the club and cussing is on the main page for all to see. Do you think that this reflects a positive image for the ARC? Do you think that it helps MACNA? Do you think it helps recruit ARC members? His thread updates and appears on the main page, just as this thread should.

If Andy is the only employee or not is irrelevant. He is the only employee that was arrested. He is a part of this community and is fair game to discuss. As far as lines...there are no lines. If I ever get arrested for a DUI or whatever, feel free to discuss it as you wish. It will not be your fault that I got arrested and it will not be your fault that my family suffers from my actions; they are MY actions.

To reiterate my stance, I am not advocating lynching this guy nor trashing his business/family. I only feel that censoring this thread by restricting it from showing on the main page is a very communist move.

That is a good point, I didn't even realize that this thread wasn't appearing as updated on the main page. I'm sure the BoD has something to say about it, right? :unsure:

The BoD never has anything to say about anything. They seem to keep their opinions to themselves, so I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe they haven't even see this thread!

I will pray for Andy and his family, and those he may have come in negative contact with. Just goes to show you that you never know how quickly things can spiral down hill so fast. I believe a firm foundation in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ will keep us all at the point we need to be, or urge us to be better than we are. I pray that Andy can make things right with himself, his family, and any victims, as well as make things right with God.

God help us all............

Todd's thread about him leaving the club and cussing is on the main page for all to see. Do you think that this reflects a positive image for the ARC? Do you think that it helps MACNA? Do you think it helps recruit ARC members? His thread updates and appears on the main page, just as this thread should.
Well, the thread that Todd started can only be viewed by "paying members" since it's under the ARC members forum. So it's not THAT public. ;)
The BoD never has anything to say about anything. They seem to keep their opinions to themselves, so I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe they haven't even see this thread!
Highly doubt it. :D

The BoD never has anything to say about anything. They seem to keep their opinions to themselves, so I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe they haven't even see this thread!

LOL.

Good post Skriz, ignorance does seems to be the defense de jour :). Personally, I never normally read club announcements. I found it because I was actively looking for it. Anyways, you can make as many good points as you want skriz and company, it won't change anything...

...
Highly doubt it. :D

yeah, it was more of a play on them "not seeing" the 30% off 2part thread!

LOL.

Good post Skriz, ignorance does seems to be the defense de jour :). Personally, I never normally read club announcements. I found it because I was actively looking for it. Anyways, you can make as many good points as you want skriz and company, it won't change anything...

Sad, but true!

To what end would you protect Andy?
None. He has no "protection". Your exact words were "This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy" which says that you feel the need to publicly and specifically disseminate who, what, and where Andy is beyond what is already in the news.

Turning my question back on me doesn't answer why you feel the need to make sure everyone that visits the site knows that Andy Diass got arrested and the fact that it affects this club which, by nature of this discussion thread, also involves putting on display his association with this club.

So, I'll ask again, what good does it do?

I'll answer your question though: not displaying it on the main board will ensure that people can have a verbose, rational discourse regarding his situation which is embarrassing for him, his family, his friends, anyone on his baseball team, his customers, his business contacts, the ARC, the BOD, and to the entire reef keeping community. Constantly bumping the thread to the front of the line on our main page isn't (I hope) the face we'd want to see on the ARC while this unfolds. Removing it from that area allows the subject to continue to be discussed at length and at will by everyone without making it the most popular thread the public sees on the board.
Todd's thread about him leaving the club and cussing is on the main page for all to see. Do you think that this reflects a positive image for the ARC? Do you think that it helps MACNA? Do you think it helps recruit ARC members? His thread updates and appears on the main page, just as this thread should.
No, no, and no. But it does reflect actions of the club and its members in pursuit of club activities, which Andy's news does not. Therefore I think it does have a legitimate place on the main page. Andy's actions affect the club, but were not in regards to the club.
To reiterate my stance, I am not advocating lynching this guy
Oh, but you ARE. What other ways are we to interpret "This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy"? Please qualify how this statement fits into "not advocating lynching this guy".

A couple of points to clarify some things:

This thread is not "hidden". Only some forums are chosen as 'general interest' to pull posts on the home page. You can also note that no sponsor forum, BoD forum, and several other forums' posts are pulled. It's only setup to show what is most relevant to the most people when you enter the home page. The "quick list" was added as an easy way for the general public, instead of the standard setup (seen here (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/)). This all forums page is accessible from several links on the home page, including the link that says 'new posts'. Anyone with any rights, including not registered or logged in, can see this forum. It's not hidden, but it's not plastered all over the website, either.

The ARC forums does have built-in software to comply with COPPA (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.shtm). It asks the person's age, gets parental constent, etc. It's currently disabled. If we decide as a club to enable it, then we can. But do keep in mind that it's very easy to lie about your age when registering...

No decision has been made about MRC as a sponsor; that topic will be covered in the upcoming BoD meeting. Remember, MRC is a business; Andy happens to be the owner, so the issue is not quite as cut-and-dry as it might seem. (If someone at Petland was charged with the same thing, do we drop Petland? What if that person worked at a Petland in California? Where do you draw the line? Also keep in mind that he's technically innocent until proven guilty, so we really can't do anything based on a moral stance until the courts make their decision.) The issue will probably take care of itself when the business (almost undoubtedly) closes doors. Until then, nothing will change until the Board meets. Having said that, good luck placing an order with them as a sponsor; it's a moot point at the moment....

Lastly, there is no easy way to view PMs. Tony doesn't have a way, no moderator has a way - nobody except myself, and that's only because I have to have rights to see everything in order to backup the database and do other administrative tasks. This access requires direct server access, and I'm the only one with that (plus a backup of that information where Tony can get to it, in case I get hit by a bus). For me to read PMs takes a fair amount of work - it's reading them encoded in a database and piecing together the post. I assure you that with everything I've got going on right now, I hardly find time to read these forums, much less sift through the database for some kind of weird pleasure.

Who is on the BOD? I know Tony, Gwen, Steve...maybe Kayla? Are there more members? When do we find out about there decisions? Ive been a member for almost a year now and I have never really heard or seen anything that details there activities besides the minutes and those were posted months after the meetings. We are in the dark about most things. It wouldnt surprise me if they were protecting this individual somehow but for what reason I dont know. He is a low life sexual predator get rid of him.

Lastly, there is no easy way to view PMs. Tony doesn't have a way, no moderator has a way - nobody except myself, and that's only because I have to have rights to see everything in order to backup the database and do other administrative tasks. This access requires direct server access, and I'm the only one with that (plus a backup of that information where Tony can get to it, in case I get hit by a bus). For me to read emails takes a fair amount of work - it's reading them encoded in a database and piecing together the post. I assure you that with everything I've got going on right now, I hardly find time to read these forums, much less sift through the database for some kind of weird pleasure.It is an easy hack to instal here is one hack for example http://www.phpbbhacks.com/download/200 . If you dont have it instaled or one similar to it then yes it would take a while to access that information. But overall its not that difficult.

Chris is on the BoD. It's in his signature. ;)

(It'd be nice if all the BoD people had a signature like that. :) )

I dont know the criteria about being a sponsor..do they pay us? If so that may be a concern in removing their status. If not, I see no obligation on our part to not sever ties with this company.

Granted, we dont have to purchase anything from him, I never had or will nor do I even know this individual except for what I have read and seen on TV.

If anyone thinks the allegations are anything less than cut and dry then I would ask if you still believe in the Easter Bunny....

I question, unless someone can give good cause, why this company is still listed as a sponsor...

As for the "Petland" scenario, This is not a franchise, he is not Walmart, Petco, Petland, Petsmart...He is an individual that has a local business that we, in some warp way, are still supporting.

Thats my 2 cents...

Who is on the BOD? I know Tony, Gwen, Steve...maybe Kayla? Are there more members?

Officers:

Tony - President
Kevin - Vice President
Gwen - Secretary
Sharon Warning (not on the forums) - Treasurer

Board members (comprised of last years' officers):

Chris (me) - 2006 President
Ray O'Conner - 2006 VP - rarely on the boards
Kayla - 2006 Secretary
Sharon Warning

When do we find out about there decisions? Ive been a member for almost a year now and I have never really heard or seen anything that details there activities besides the minutes and those were posted months after the meetings.

It's hidden in a very esoteric forum called "Board of Directors / Meeting Minutes (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=81)". :) It's under the forums link on every page in this site. I'm not sure how to make it more obvious.

We are in the dark about most things.

No - there's just not that much stuff that we need to talk about in private. We're required to have a Board meeting once a quarter, in accordance to our Bylaws (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/index.php?page=bylaws) (also linked on the home page). Meetings are announced to the entire club, and members are encouraged to join and voice their opinion, although that never happens.

It wouldnt surprise me if they were protecting this individual somehow but for what reason I dont know. He is a low life sexual predator get rid of him.

My god, man. What reason would we ever have to protect him? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.... Even if the Board WAS in some kind of secret conspiracy, wore black suits and black sunglasses and had people killed at the snap of our fingers, instead of the constantly attacked group that we are, then why in the world would we want to protect Andy? Come'on - use your brain for a minute.

It is an easy hack to instal here is one hack for example http://www.phpbbhacks.com/download/200 . If you dont have it instaled or one similar to it then yes it would take a while to access that information. But overall its not that difficult.

Yes, it's easy to install that hack if we were running phpbb. But we're not- we're running vBulletin. And since no-one else is an adminstrator aside from myself, then no one CAN install hacks.

The BoD never has anything to say about anything. They seem to keep their opinions to themselves, so I wouldn't hold your breath. Maybe they haven't even see this thread!

Interesting comment, given that when the Board does step in, people get ticked off (here's a good example (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8702&page=2) of "Big Brother" syndrome). If we say something here, then it gets misinterpreted. There's a fine line between keeping things under control and voicing our opinion and being too outspoken. Remember, we're members, too, and we're under no obligation and speak our opinion anymore than anyone else is. To that end, we have an upcoming Board meeting to address the MRC issue, the way it should be address - in open forum and in person.

Just as a side note and off topic....MOJO (Chris) You do an awesome job!! TRULY!!

Ok -

1. I am not on the BoD. The BoD is made up of the current officers and last years officers.

2. ARC is acting responsibly here, and the concerns are not just theirs. RC has closed done all threads on this subject, but removed him from their list of sponsors until they make decisions about it. TRT closed their threads, and re-opened them under one thread and keep it much more tightly monitored than ARC.

3. Sponsors do not pay ARC. Sponsorship says nothing about endorsement by ARC. It is simply to give the members a discount in exchange for advertizing. ARC verifies their entity as a business, and that is all. The situation at MRC is unique.

Chris (that young cuss) was faster in his response, and wrote while I was typing. Read his notes.

I dont know the criteria about being a sponsor..do they pay us?

No, they do not.

If not, I see no obligation on our part to not sever ties with this company. If anyone thinks the allegations are anything less than cut and dry then I would ask if you still believe in the Easter Bunny....

I don't doubt that he's guilty for a minute. But my opinion in the matter is irrelevant. The Board is setup so that the club can make a group decision on matters, without one persons' opinions overriding everything. I'm sure that all the Board members will feel the same way, but there is a process for these types of things, and we're moving along as fast as this club can. We've tried to hold 'emergency BoD meetings' in the past, and the whole club got ticked off that we didn't give enough notice for them to attend.

As for the "Petland" scenario, This is not a franchise, he is not Walmart, Petco, Petland, Petsmart...He is an individual that has a local business that we, in some warp way, are still supporting.

As others have mentioned, the company's future is still potentially relevant to his family, who are innocent victims in all of this. The ARC will take action, but we'll do so the way in a formalized process, as it should be.

I understand your thinking Chris..I just wonder how quick our sponsors would drop us if something like this happened to an officer of ours or what they would expect from us...what would we do then?

Im no one to request anything...just having a conversation...and gathering thoughts....bored at work :)

:unsure:

Just as a side note and off topic....MOJO (Chris) You do an awesome job!! TRULY!!

Thanks very much- it's very difficult sometimes to keep a level head or my [typically very opinionated] comments out of things! :) I just encourage everyone to remember that everyone here (both Directors and members alike) are all human, and we can only do what we think is best given the information available to us.

I can assure everyone that the Board is not on a power trip (try being on the board if you don't believe me), and we do everything in our [very limited] power to serve the club to the best of our abilities. But, we're human and make mistakes. It's up to the club to support and help direct the interests of the Board, in a collaborate effort. The more we can do that, the better the club will be.

(Wow- maybe I should go into politics... :) )

I don't see the connection between this issue and the age limit on these boards. I personally don't support putting an age limit for this forum...I think personality issues with specific forum members shouldn't bias against mature posters that are younger (I can think of two of the top of my head that are 15-16 and are more mature than some of us).

On the other issue, I have no comment. I feel sorry for his family and anyone he may have had inappropriate relations with.

I toally agree with you Loren. My son was only 17 when he joined and at the time he was building and running a very beautiful and healthy reef tank. He learned a great deal on this forum and IMHO was very responsible with his posts. I doubt many of you even realized his age... Though that brings up a good point. I think requiring age to be listed in profiles would help. I know I would watch out for a member more closely if I knew he/she was a minor.

As for this member in question, I do not know him but my prayers are with his family at this time. I have a 6 year old daughter so I understand the sick feeling this brings to each of us but we must be careful in our judgments until the case is heard. As hard as that is to do, please be patient.

Thanks very much- it's very difficult sometimes to keep a level head or my [typically very opinionated] comments out of things! :) I just encourage everyone to remember that everyone here (both Directors and members alike) are all human, and we can only do what we think is best given the information available to us.

I can assure everyone that the Board is not on a power trip (try being on the board if you don't believe me), and we do everything in our [very limited] power to serve the club to the best of our abilities. But, we're human and make mistakes. It's up to the club to support and help direct the interests of the Board, in a collaborate effort. The more we can do that, the better the club will be.

(Wow- maybe I should go into politics... :) )


I think you all do the best you can with what your dealt...We elected you not you elected you...so if we dont like what your doing...well we can do this..:doh:

Sorry this is kinda off topic... :) I heard that ARC paid for a bunch of people to fly out to pittsburgh for MACNA and their hotel rooms? Any truth to that rumor?

Sorry this is kinda off topic... :) I heard that ARC paid for a bunch of people to fly out to pittsburgh for MACNA and their hotel rooms? Any truth to that rumor?

The SWU committee is a separate organization than the ARC - a different tax ID, 501(c)3 organization, separate Board, separate accounts. The SWU committee is now handling MACNA. The made a decision to reimburse money out of the SWU account to a couple of people that would be decision makers for MACNA XX. SWU is run like a business, as it should be; like any business, they chose to make an investment in their people by sending them to the previous years' MACNA. In doing so, they've had hundreds of people already signed up and dozens of sponsors - far faster than any MACNA in the past, and have recovered their costs many times over. I'd say it was a good business decision.

In either case, it was a SWU committee move, with their own funds, and doesn't directly affect ARC.

Sorry this is kinda off topic... :) I heard that ARC paid for a bunch of people to fly out to pittsburgh for MACNA and their hotel rooms? Any truth to that rumor?

Jin... sending you a PM.
Let's keep the topic on track here. Your question as well as several other discussions here can take place at the BoD meeting.

I've said this on some other posts. These guys (the BoD) only have a few months left...well half of them at least.

Overall, ARC is very successful. Can we at least let them finish their terms without losing their hair?

This stuff just isn't worth the stress we're putting them through...remember they are volunteers. Think of it as an act of kindness.

I'm not saying folks are right or wrong here, I just think we are beating up the wrong folks. The perv is the bad guy here, not Stroid, Chris (Mojo), Chris J, Tony or whoever else is posting here.

Oh yeah, everyone on this thread has had an opportunity to be a BoD member. Many even turned it down. Be kind to the ones that are leaving and are coming in.

Just my 1 cent. I'm keeping my other penny for another post.

well... nevermind... Chris answered it more eloquently that I was going to.

Yes and no... MACNA funds were used to get those on the MACNA planning committee to MACNA19.

Chris is alot better at wording than I am... and he also doesnt have management walking by his desk wondering why I'm playing on a fish website.

Regarding MACNA, the two chairs (Margi and Kevin) were paid for. Everyone else - Katrina, Todd, Simon, Tim, Bob, and myself paid our own way.

I think paying for the chairs was quite appropriate, and similar to what has happened for 20 years at MACNA.

and he also doesnt have management walking by his desk wondering why I'm playing on a fish website.

Slacker! :)

Admin note - my discussion with Stroid has been moved to this thread (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8758) to keep things on topic

i was in the arc very close to the beginning, on the original bod along with jenn,chris aka mafia ,andy and charles keune(spelling?) i didnt miss a meeting for several years . we all got along fine untill we went public online.all the comeraderie ended it then becomes easy and to some extent exciting to try and one up the next guy.sometimes we do it out of personal resentment.sometimes were fishing for a certain response.sometimes we are just pissed at the world and need to piss someone else off.whatever the reason you could put all these same people around a table and the whole dynamic of the conversation would become more civil when face to face.

now that i know their is a controversial post in the members only forumn... i must hurry to pay my dues, so i can jump in on it.......

now that i know their is a controversial post in the members only forumn... i must hurry to pay my dues, so i can jump in on it.......
:D

Enough already!

1 person, loosely associated with the ARC, innocent (as of yet, until proven otherwise), 2000+ Views and 120 replies for what???
You voted the Prez, BOD etc. let them do their job.

Why does every post need to become a public trashing?

Enough already!

1 person, loosely associated with the ARC, innocent (as of yet, until proven otherwise), 2000+ Views and 120 replies for what???
You voted the Prez, BOD etc. let them do their job.

Why does every post need to become a public trashing?

As a voice of considerable wisdom, get ready to be trashed by those less fortunate. :)

Enough already!

1 person, loosely associated with the ARC, innocent (as of yet, until proven otherwise), 2000+ Views and 120 replies for what???
You voted the Prez, BOD etc. let them do their job.

Why does every post need to become a public trashing?

Because some people (not the majority - we only have a few) would rather argue with how the Board does something rather than volunteer their own time. It's easier to complain than it is to do something about it...

Enough already!

1 person, loosely associated with the ARC, innocent (as of yet, until proven otherwise), 2000+ Views and 120 replies for what???
You voted the Prez, BOD etc. let them do their job.

Why does every post need to become a public trashing?

A former president of the ARC, current member and sponsor is hardly "loosely associated with the ARC". Problem is, some of these guys are not doing their job!

Because some people (not the majority - we only have a few) would rather argue with how the Board does something rather than volunteer their own time. It's easier to complain than it is to do something about it...

If you want us to be a part, nominate and vote us in. I know it is easy to criticize, but when I was asked to do something, I did it. Chris, you out of all people should know who in the BoD participates. Has Ray done ANYTHING as BoD? C'mon!

Chris and Tony are the only 2 people who I have seen work their butts off and take the time to address us. That is not to say the treasurer does not do her part, I am sure she does since that end is running smoothly. And I think Tony needs to do a little more; he really does slack off a bit much for my liking!

None. He has no "protection". Your exact words were "This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy" which says that you feel the need to publicly and specifically disseminate who, what, and where Andy is beyond what is already in the news.

You may want to re-read the thread and see who said this statement.

I'll answer your question though: not displaying it on the main board will ensure that people can have a verbose, rational discourse regarding his situation which is embarrassing for him, his family, his friends, anyone on his baseball team, his customers, his business contacts, the ARC, the BOD, and to the entire reef keeping community. Constantly bumping the thread to the front of the line on our main page isn't (I hope) the face we'd want to see on the ARC while this unfolds. Removing it from that area allows the subject to continue to be discussed at length and at will by everyone without making it the most popular thread the public sees on the board.

I do enjoy having a civilized discussion about this. I would like to think the same could be had no matter where the thread lies.

Oh, but you ARE. What other ways are we to interpret "This should be on the main page to educate people about this guy"? Please qualify how this statement fits into "not advocating lynching this guy".

I didn't say that, so I am not going to address it. BUT, having people aware of this discussion, does not mean that we are going to lynch him. I just feel like he is being afforded certain protections that would not be afforded to other members. This discussion should be updated on the main page. It is a big issue.

If you want us to be a part, nominate and vote us in. I know it is easy to criticize, but when I was asked to do something, I did it. Chris, you out of all people should know who in the BoD participates. Has Ray done ANYTHING as BoD? C'mon!

As a general rule, I personally don't nominate people I don't know. If you can't find anyone else in the remaining 443 members to nominate you, then that might be a sign... :) (That's humor, in case anyone missed it! Anyone can nominate anyone else, as long as they're a member in good standing and have attended at least 6(?) meetings in the past year).

No, Ray hasn't done much. Neither has Kayla. Sharon is incredibly burned out and only took on the position 2 years ago to help out Steve & Margi - she's responsible, but simply doesn't make the time because she has other priorities in her life (like her two kids). I wish we had a stronger Board, but we can't force them to be active. We can only encourage people to volunteer and show up at Board meetings. Members can't directly vote at Board meetings, but we (as a Board) would much rather hear from members than guessing what people want.

Chris and Tony are the only 2 people who I have seen work their butts off and take the time to address us.

Thanks, although Tony has been much more involved than I have been - with a LOT of recent life changes, I've been incredibly busy. I'm trying to be more attentive nowadays...

That is not to say the treasurer does not do her part, I am sure she does since that end is running smoothly. And I think Tony needs to do a little more; he really does slack off a bit much for my liking!

I'm hoping that last sentence was a joke - Tony does a LOT of stuff behind the scenes to keep the club running; I think the amount of stuff going on has burned him out (as it would anyone).

Yes, we need stronger leadership, in the form of more people, so that the load of keeping the club going can be spread out over more people (and opinions!). I feel very good about our incoming officers, and hope more people volunteer next year to pitch in.

As a general rule, I personally don't nominate people I don't know. If you can't find anyone else in the remaining 443 members to nominate you, then that might be a sign... :) (That's humor, in case anyone missed it! Anyone can nominate anyone else, as long as they're a member in good standing and have attended at least 6(?) meetings in the past year)

I'm hoping that last sentence was a joke - Tony does a LOT of stuff behind the scenes to keep the club running; I think the amount of stuff going on has burned him out (as it would anyone).

Yes, we need stronger leadership, in the form of more people, so that the load of keeping the club going can be spread out over more people (and opinions!). I feel very good about our incoming officers, and hope more people volunteer next year to pitch in.

Yeah, it was a joke! :)

I am fairly new to the club and have not really been active or available. out of 443, I think I know 3! I have never even considered being "involved" in the club either, so I am guilty of that. When the time comes and I know more people, then maybe I can become more involved; I am sure I wil be kicked out by then though ;)

Thanks for acknowledging the shortcomings of certain BoD too. This is what I was reffering too.

Thanks for acknowledging the shortcomings of certain BoD too. This is what I was reffering too. Likewise I was glad to see that.

BTW - Sharon has a broken foot and pneumonia right now...we might give her a bit of a break!

OK - everyone that wants to be involved - MACNA is a good time to put your words in to actions. Over a 1000 people are coming to Atlanta to see our great city. The MACNA meeting is this Sunday.

You may want to re-read the thread and see who said this statement.
Apologies. I messed that one up.

It is my opinion that while Andy has a history with the ARC and his alleged actions are reprehensible and should he be convicted we should drop him as a sponsor, our relatively public discussion of the situation doesn't merit being bumped constantly to a list of active threads on the main ARC page. His actions affect the club, but the alleged crime does not involve the club directly (other than this discussion). Todd's issues with the club involve the club directly.

Of course the whole issue is silly in the first place since anyone visiting the boards will see this as the first item in "Club Announcements" which makes any discussion of should or should not be on the front page pretty moot.

:)

George, I'm tapped! I think we've both said all we can say, no? Good dialogue. If we still have the rep system, I'd give you a point for the civil discussion.

Thanks and good luck. If you stay around we will haunt you for more work!

President: Brandon (xyzpdq)

Vice-President: AJ (Showtime); Mike (Ouling)

Secretary: Linda (Linda Lee); Jeremy (JManeyPanda)

Treasurer: Danny (Danny Bradley)

Steve- was this post supposed to be in this thread?

That's where it went!! I posted it quickly between patients and could not find it.

Thanks!

A Neuropsychologist who has his mind on ARC forums all day....hmmm, getting worried Steve!

How bad are we at our jobs because we spend too much time here? I'm pretty sure I'm only worth a fraction of my salary these days!

Who is on the BOD? I know Tony, Gwen, Steve...maybe Kayla? Are there more members? When do we find out about there decisions? Ive been a member for almost a year now and I have never really heard or seen anything that details there activities besides the minutes and those were posted months after the meetings. We are in the dark about most things. It wouldnt surprise me if they were protecting this individual somehow but for what reason I dont know. He is a low life sexual predator get rid of him.

Jesus tap dancing christ! DOes it ever end with you? I swear you have a part in every bit of drama that occurs on these boards? Do you really think that the BOD enjoys playing cyber freaking baby sitter for the likes of you?

Jesus tap dancing christ!

OK, I need to preface this by saying that I am not a Christian, but I really have never heard that saying before...

To all that say what good does it do to post this on the main page.

Here is the good it does.
ONE thing everyone that reads the threads every where else comes to our site to see what is going on sence they all now Andy is from here. How deoes that make our club look that we are one of the only places still listing him as a sponsor. RC , the reef tank and so on have all removed him as a sponsor. So when other people from all over come to our site and see that nothing is realy being done how does that make us look. To me it look crapy that this thread is hidden. It also look crapy that he is still a sponsor. Who want anything to do with a sick SOB like that.I dont care who is ANDY's friend are and who isnt , this club should distance its self from him in all manners.As far as Macna seeing this thread , I would rather them see us talking about it to let them know we are taking actions rather them seeing us do nothing. We dont need him as a member nor do we need him as a SPONSOR. Kick his but to the cirb and lets move on.

MRC sponsor status thread. (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8771)

our site [...] to our site and see that nothing is realy being done how does that make us look. To me it look crapy that this thread is hidden. [...] this club should distance its self [...] I would rather them see us talking about it [...] We dont need him

Casper, I'm glad you've finally decided to join the ARC. After 345 posts, I wondered if it'd ever happen. :) If you have trouble getting your dues in, please let me know, and I'll put you in touch with the membership coordinator.

Jesus tap dancing christ! DOes it ever end with you? I swear you have a part in every bit of drama that occurs on these boards? Do you really think that the BOD enjoys playing cyber freaking baby sitter for the likes of you?Actually why dont you go back and read through the threads and see how not involved I am in the bickering (with the exception of the thread Mojo created about this particular subject). Seriously! On top of that I have the right to comment about any particular thing that I want to. I am a "Paying Member" of this club, that attends every meeting, almost every function since I joined this club. I am pretty sure I have every right to post what I would like when I would like without having someone like yourself talking crap to me. Got that!

Step back non-believers...If you still have doubts after viewing the screen clips in this video then your shades are closed and the blinders are on...

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4625985&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1

I am a "Paying Member" of this club, that attends every meeting, almost every function since I joined this club. I am pretty sure I have every right to post what I would like when I would like without having someone like yourself talking crap to me. Got that!

No, you don't have that right. Period. Your status as a paying member, while appreciated, does not give you the "right to post what I would like when I would like." Instead, you have the privilege of posting on this club's forum, and are expected to conduct yourself as an adult. Making accusations against the board and barking at people like you just did is directly violating (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=890) the spirit of the boards, and is already on my list to bring up to the rest of the Board.

Why didn't I say anything to platypus? I happen to agree with him, and I've received multiple PM's about this whole thread and how you can't seem to act like a reasonable adult. You most certainly won't agree with this assessment, and will write back in a panic with more accusations, but it does appear that it's you that the rest of the forum members isn't happy with. And I'm sure it has to do with your attitude. "Got that!?"

Directed to everyone:

And before something is said about how no-one can question anything. It's not a matter of questioning the Board, other members, etc. I encourage people to question their leadership (not just on ARC). However, making unfounded accusations and having an attitude is a long way from constructive criticism. In my opinion (and I'll be taking this to the Board meeting), if you don't like the forum's "rules" of acting like an adult, then you'll be asked to leave. To a few of you out there, that reads as "lose the attitude."

Step back non-believers...
Who wasn't in a state of belief after the very first link in the thread where the officer basically said they had video of him exposing himself?

No, you don't have that right. Period. Your status as a paying member, while appreciated, does not give you the "right to post what I would like when I would like." Instead, you have the privilege of posting on this club's forum, and are expected to conduct yourself as an adult.Your right I should have said it is a privilege to post on this board..instead of the "right" but I think it was pretty clear the point I was trying to make. Which is I have the "privilege" to post my opinion on this board as a member of the ARC. I really dont appreciatte you jumping down my back after someone attacks me. I didnt lash out at anybody to deserve that sort of response from theplatypus. I actually got out of the thread and really didnt post in relation to any of the recent "bickering threads". Making accusations against the board and barking at people like you just did is directly violating (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=890) the spirit of the boards, and is already on my list to bring up to the rest of the Board. I thought I clarified what I meant and appologized for that yesterday or did u miss that somehow?

Why didn't I say anything to platypus? I happen to agree with him, and I've received multiple PM's about this whole thread and how you can't seem to act like a reasonable adult.So if you agree with someone you allow them to snap at me and write "childish remarks". You most certainly won't agree with this assessment, and will write back in a panic with more accusations, What are you pulling this from go through my post history over the past year I am pretty chill person. but it does appear that it's you that the rest of the forum members isn't happy with.Thats a pretty bold statement I didnt know the entire ARC hated me...thats news to me. Considering I try to help people on the board and have given away free frags and such.

And I'm sure it has to do with your attitude. "Got that!?" Interesting.



And before something is said about how no-one can question anything. It's not a matter of questioning the Board, other members, etc. I encourage people to question their leadership (not just on ARC). However, making unfounded accusations and having an attitude is a long way from constructive criticism. In my opinion (and I'll be taking this to the Board meeting), if you don't like the forum's "rules" of acting like an adult, then you'll be asked to leave. To a few of you out there, that reads as "lose the attitude."Im pretty sure I clarified this yesterday but if you want to keep bringing things up thats fine.

Your right I should have said it is a privilege to post on this board..instead of the "right" but I think it was pretty clear the point I was trying to make. Which is I have the "privilege" to post my opinion on this board as a member of the ARC.

Sure, as long as it can be done so without an attitude. This post and the last part of our other thread is a good example of discussion without attitude.

I didnt lash out at anybody to deserve that sort of response from theplatypus.

Yes, you did- the BoD. You and I have made amends on that issue. Platypus had obviously only seen this thread, and thus was commenting based on it alone.

Thats a pretty bold statement I didnt know the entire ARC hated me...thats news to me.

I never said that anyone hated you. Only that other forum members see the same attitude I do. I agree it's not in every thread- not even the majority - I looked before posting.

Im pretty sure I clarified this yesterday but if you want to keep bringing things up thats fine.

It wasn't directed at you. I was waiting for someone else to come out, pointing fingers.

Platypus had obviously only seen this thread, and thus was commenting based on it alone. Maybe then he should do his research before lashing out at me. Then in return you lashed out at me as well.


I never said that anyone hated you. Only that other forum members see the same attitude I do. If anyone has a problem they should address me with it. I am a very chill person as I said before and am willing to discuss anything with anybody. Nobody has ever sent me a PM with the exception of Dawgdude in regards to anything ive posted on this site and me and Dawg worked it out.

Seriously I voiced my opinion on a matter that affects this club. Since then all I have done is defend myself as if I am on trial. Maybe this is the way the BOD feels but I dont think that I represent the same thing as the BOD for the ARC. I dont make decisions that impact the entire ARC and the community behind it. If the general rule is only discuss issues with the BOD at the BOD meeting and not on the forum then so be it.

Jesus tap dancing christ! DOes it ever end with you? I swear you have a part in every bit of drama that occurs on these boards? Do you really think that the BOD enjoys playing cyber freaking baby sitter for the likes of you?

How about some consistency here...aren't posts such as these supposed to be taken to pm's? Enforcement shouldn't be based on if the mods/Bod agrees with the sentiment or not.

Personally Im offend with that "tap dancing" comment...not like anywho would care..I think it was in very very poor taste!

I think this topic clearly engenders intense emotions. I don't think any of us should blame people for wanting immediate action nor for wanting this to be on our frontpage. This is a truly serious matter, its actually rather horrific.

He could be accused of mass-murder and people wouldn't be as up in arms like this... but we're talking about pedophilia here! This type of thing sickens most of to our very core, even more so the parents, so much so that we want it taken care of immediately and given the attention it deserves.

Would having this posted on the frontpage to begin with get the story more eyeballs? Sure, but considering that this thread is already the most viewed topic around by far it's moot to argue that any longer. So lets drop that. Was the BoD trying to hide this topic? No freaking way! If they wanted to hide it they woulda put it in the ARC Members forum... or not at all.

Why didn't I say anything to platypus? I happen to agree with him, and I've received multiple PM's about this whole thread and how you can't seem to act like a reasonable adult.

Stroid's comment that the BoD might be protecting this guy was out of line, no doubt. Did his comment deserve the backlash he just got? I dunno, that was pretty darn severe! I agree with Skriz on this though, as that part of mojo's rebuke really bugged me. Anyways, some of us certainly would love to see this handled in a slightly different manner, but different management styles do not necessarily mean there is a concerted effort or a conspiracy to protect this guy. The BoD is proceeding as quickly as possible in as judicious a manner as they deem fit. I'm starting to realize there's no absolute right way to deal with this issue, the important thing though is that this very very difficult issue IS being dealt with.

I will speak up for Ziad though, as he's an upstanding member of our community and a friend of mine. I thought he handled himself pretty well yesterday. He was reasonable and accountable, and it appeared that amends had been made. I've never seen him upset about anything before on these forums or get into any real heated arguments. He has been generous with his time and helped many a reefer out here at his own expense. If you look beyond this thread, you will find that his reputation is actually very good. If there's a troublemaker around here, it could be me? :), its not Ziad.

This is just such an emotional topic though that some of us want swift and righteous action... very very badly. Its easy to get upset when you have an absolute positive conviction that you are right... and then others don't agree with you. This kind of heinous crime just brings that particular emotion out of people... So... can we take a collective deep breath, realize that this crime is bringing out some of the worst emotions in all of us, and agree not to take it out on each other any more? Gratzi.

FutureInterest is right. My apologies for allowing emotion entering into my moderation judgement. I'll send a PM to Platypus to enforce the policy as well.

Thanks for speaking up for Ziad. This is my first real impression of him, and accusations against the Board didn't settle well - it's very difficult to volunteer and hear only negative comments. My apologies.

I this horse has been beaten to death. I'm stepping out of this thread, but I'll leave it open if anyone else wants to discuss.

Thanks Jin and Chris ill make sure to reintroduce myself to you at the next meeting. We have met before.

I just want to say that the BOD is doing the right thing, take it slow and make decisions on the facts at hand. I personally believe in A justice system and the current one we have states clearly, regardless of crime, that any man/woman is innocent until proven guilty. I know we live in a world where people are quick to judge, but the BOD must rely on facts, not opinions. Once the facts are out, then the BOD can rule one way or the other.

Jin said it best that this hits many of us close to our hearts as parent. My first thought was of my childern, but I understand that is just my reaction and I should not make emotional decisions. I agree we need to take a deep breath and, watch the facts closely. The BOD meeting is the time for us to meet as a concerned group & family and discuss any precautions we need to make.

He could be accused of mass-murder and people wouldn't be as up in arms like this... but we're talking about pedophilia here! This type of thing sickens most of to our very core, even more so the parents, so much so that we want it taken care of immediately and given the attention it deserves.

Not trying to trivialize or minimize this in any way, but would this actually be more like sex with a minor rather than pedophilia? Wasn't the offense involving someone posing as a 14 year old female? Many 14 year olds that I've seen over the past couple of years seem to be much older than their years and are trying to grow up way too fast. I've seen 14 year olds recently that could easily have passed for 17 or even 18.

Not excusing anything this person did. It is indeed horrible. But none of us know any of the details (and I really don't care to). I don't know if the officer was posing as a 14 year old in a chatroom where young women who act far older than their chronological age (have you SEEN some of the Myspaces pages?) encourage this kind of attention or something like Toon Town where most of the kids are there to play an online game.

In my opinion, we should not judge the actual crime without knowing specifics. If he was a predator of young kids on the Internet who were not looking for this kind of thing, then yep... hang him high and hang him quickly.

I don't know this person, but I can see how those who do know him are shocked so it would stand to reason that this could be someone who suffered a serious lapse in judgment in acting on his attraction to young women.

Sexual activity amoung kids is becoming scarier and scarier and occuring at younger and younger ages. The actions of the kids themselves are never addressed. The permissiveness of the parents is never addressed. And now it's even being considered to give middle school kids birth control without the knowledge of parents. 6th graders!

I know I'll probably be publically flayed for speaking out like this, but it seems we should simply remove this person as a sponsor and leave the rest to the authorites.

In my opinion (and apparently according to the law) it doesn't matter where it happened. As soon as he found out "she" was 14; he should have run for the hills instead of sending graphic videos of himself to "her". I don't card how old a 14 year old acts they are not capable of making decisions about their sexuality. That's not opinion; that's law. Would you be more upset if the officer posed as a 13 year old? 11 year old? Where would you draw the line? I will tell you for a fact if someone does something like this to my daughter when she is 14 they better hope the police get to them before I do because my wife and I do everything we can to shield her from stuff she is not old enought o make decisions about and I don't need some pervert deciding she is old enough. Sorry, but as a father and teacher this sickens me to a whole new level!
Not trying to trivialize or minimize this in any way, but would this actually be more like sex with a minor rather than pedophilia? Wasn't the offense involving someone posing as a 14 year old female? Many 14 year olds that I've seen over the past couple of years seem to be much older than their years and are trying to grow up way too fast. I've seen 14 year olds recently that could easily have passed for 17 or even 18.

Not excusing anything this person did. It is indeed horrible. But none of us know any of the details (and I really don't care to). I don't know if the officer was posing as a 14 year old in a chatroom where young women who act far older than their chronological age (have you SEEN some of the Myspaces pages?) encourage this kind of attention or something like Toon Town where most of the kids are there to play an online game.

In my opinion, we should not judge the actual crime without knowing specifics. If he was a predator of young kids on the Internet who were not looking for this kind of thing, then yep... hang him high and hang him quickly.

I don't know this person, but I can see how those who do know him are shocked so it would stand to reason that this could be someone who suffered a serious lapse in judgment in acting on his attraction to young women.

Sexual activity amoung kids is becoming scarier and scarier and occuring at younger and younger ages. The actions of the kids themselves are never addressed. The permissiveness of the parents is never addressed. And now it's even being considered to give middle school kids birth control without the knowledge of parents. 6th graders!

I know I'll probably be publically flayed for speaking out like this, but it seems we should simply remove this person as a sponsor and leave the rest to the authorites.

I pose this same question...What would our sponsors do if "A" president of ARC would be involved at this level, would they pull out of sponsorship before you could say "Easter Bunny"... DOH YES! Would we let Him/Her continue to be President?? DOH NO! (or at least I would hope not)

I agree, our country has by far the best judicial system in the world...I see no where that the charges against him have been denied...

I don't card how old a 14 year old acts they are not capable of making decisions about their sexuality. That's not opinion; that's law.

Then... by law, a minor should not be given birth control in middle school either, since "they are not capable of making decisions" about becoming sexually active. And legally a minor is classifed as somone under the age of 18, yet planned parenthood facilities are dispensing birth control to "children not capable of making decisions about their sexuality"

You're right. No way to draw a line.

:)

Thanks for speaking up for Ziad. This is my first real impression of him, and accusations against the Board didn't settle well - it's very difficult to volunteer and hear only negative comments. My apologies.

From yesterday's "Board meetings/minutes" thread:


On that note I think my words may have been misread and that I appologize for. I was trying to say i dont know why the BOD would protect this individual but it may seem as if they are. I do realize how it came off my bad on that.

So you didn't accept his apology for those remarks yesterday?


I'm leaving this thread open (to avoid looking like I have 'the last say'), but I think tempers have risen and then fallen, and everything that needed to be said, has been...

I thought that sounded like a decent resolution to all of this. Why could it simply not be pointed out to Platypus that the issue had been resolved yesterday instead of dragging this whole thing through the mud again today? I was pretty impressed with the way everyone came out yesterday, but have been very disappointed with the downturn today by all parties (I'm not directing this toward anyone. I'm trying to be constructive.)

I also take great offense to the "J tapdancing C" remark on this board. This is a family board, and whether you're a Christian or not the least we can do is show respect to those who are.

Then... by law, a minor should not be given birth control in middle school either, since "they are not capable of making decisions" about becoming sexually active. And legally a minor is classifed as somone under the age of 18, yet planned parenthood facilities are dispensing birth control to "children not capable of making decisions about their sexuality"

You're right. No way to draw a line.

:)
IMO none of that should happen either.

Then... by law, a minor should not be given birth control in middle school either, since "they are not capable of making decisions" about becoming sexually active. And legally a minor is classifed as somone under the age of 18, yet planned parenthood facilities are dispensing birth control to "children not capable of making decisions about their sexuality"

You're right. No way to draw a line.

:)

Given birth control is a PREVENTIVE measure, not an encouragement...Kind of like passing out clean needles in high drugs use area, free condoms, etc...Sometimes doing things like this will buy time until a successful solution is resolved.

The "sexual line" (for lack of a better term) is 16 here in sunny, increasingly-dry Georgia.

how does anyone confuse or compare 14 year old children having sex,contaception being given out,promiscuity and needle exchanges with a 41 year old married man exposing himself on video feeds 3 times to a supposed 14 year old.i know im not that far out of touch with reality.there is no comparison.

Cool, the entire forum must be subscribed to this thread by now.

Looking For RBTA!!!!

Cool, the entire forum must be subscribed to this thread by now.

Looking For RBTA!!!!

ROLF :lol2:

The appearance that the BOD is giving off on this issue is weak to say the least.
They have in the recent past set up IRC and Yahoo chats to debate/talk/discuss issues "they" feel are important and relevant. I.E ,SWU and MACNA.. Does a clear incident of the exposer of a pedophile not deem the same enthusiasm?
It does appear there is some hesitation to action, my personal opinion as to why may not be 100% accurate but the lack of action speaks to the lack of desire to take action.... or so it appears from my perspective. The way just a "few" have spoken out so aggressively against anyone with a different opinion and labeling them as trouble makers is unfair. this is a serious issue and should as such.

Not just the entire forum, the entire country......

how does anyone confuse or compare 14 year old children having sex,contaception being given out,promiscuity and needle exchanges with a 41 year old married man exposing himself on video feeds 3 times to a supposed 14 year old.i know im not that far out of touch with reality.there is no comparison.

All I was saying was: at what point are teen-aged girls who get online to encourage and invite this kind of attention accountable for their actions and the part they have in all of this? And at what point do parents step in and monitor the actions of kids online?

Never ever once did I attempt to make light of what the person in question did. The act is dispicable. I'm just saying that there is another side that is never ever addressed and it's a real issue. If he did what he did, the man indeed is a rat, but why continuously allow cheese to be put out there as bait?

Yes ~ a lot of kids get online for wholesome, innocent reasons, but a lot of kids do not. As parents, when we look the other way and allow our teen-aged girls to invite, encourage and solicit the attention of adult males, and then scream *foul* if something happens, in my opinion, that's wrong. Protecting kids online is paramount and there are actions that can be taken to insure a greater internet safety net.

The appearance that the BOD is giving off on this issue is weak to say the least. this is a serious issue and should as such.

There have been multiple posts saying that the status of MRC and the sponsorship is currently 'pending', including a large post (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8771)on the top of the home page addressing this. I have stated the Board's position many times in this thread:

- MRC's sponsorship is under pending status
- The Board will meet as soon as it reasonably can and still allow members to show up
- Andy Diass is not MRC.
- MRC is officially closed at the moment anyway, so even the idea of being an active sponsor is a moot point.

There is nothing to act on 'quickly.' Nothing will be gained from making a quick decision vs. meeting and talking about it like adults. If anything, other clubs should take note of us handling it maturely and correctly.

I am starting to notice a trend in non members to include those who do not have or had tanks in awhile starting to rock the boat with a purpose other then just a discussion nor a resolution.

I am starting to notice a trend in non members to include those who do not have or had tanks in awhile starting to rock the boat with a purpose other then just a discussion nor a resolution.

Thank you for saying it, so I didn't have to...not that it's my place considering my membership status. Some of these people have never been so active on this forum until this happened.

Also I'd like to note that it's interesting that a non-member would be so concerned with what the BoD is doing. Last I checked, the BoD was for the club members.

Yes, I've been keeping track of that, too. It clearly falls outside of the spirit of the forums and is, in general, detrimental to the club. As I said before, questioning the club and the leaders is fine; doing so without a positive intent is not.

Thank you for saying it, so I didn't have to...not that it's my place considering my membership status. Some of these people have never been so active on this forum until this happened.

Also I'd like to note that it's interesting that a non-member would be so concerned with what the BoD is doing. Last I checked, the BoD was for the club members.

Anyone that has been around for a while knows that there was a bone to pic there and this is just an open wound. It's sad really. IF you check around the net to see who started the threads it was pretty much the same two people. Although, they were doing it for the children.

Once again a few individuals find a need to personally attack others because they do not share the same opinions. and the hostile posts do not address the topic (Andy diass or MRC) even remotely other than to discredit a person with whom they disagree.
As far as tank ownership and membership (because you brought it up) I spend 100's a year supporting this club as well as other also donating no less the 20 hours a week sporting people in the hobby. I just choose to do it anonymously and have do so for years. And when "I" feel the ARC's direction and control is more open and less judgmental I may join again.
That being said last I checked I have not attacked anyone or their opinions just voiced my own...

Thank you
Chris Carella

All I was saying was: at what point are teen-aged girls who get online to encourage and invite this kind of attention accountable for their actions and the part they have in all of this? And at what point do parents step in and monitor the actions of kids online?


Linda, I am not sure if you have young ladies or gentleman in your home. I have a 20 year old daughter who is a dream, a 16 year old son who is a true gentleman and a 10 year old princess. Everyone of my children has been a dream from birth, straight A's, polite, respectful and all know right from wrong.

The thought that you dont believe a 41 year can minipulate a 14, 10, 12 or whatever year old into what that sick SOB did than your sadly misunderstand the age and complexity of a child.

Now, I met you and you do not strike me as nieve in anyway shape or form. But, unfortunately in this day and age, parents working multiple jobs to make ends meet puts children in a position to be "manipulated" in ways NO parent can understand. I am blessed to be in th eposition that my children are monitored...But that IS the exception

I so could go off big time here but Im afraid that I may be preaching to someone that does not have children in this day and age.

You "Teach" right from wrong..good from bad but you cannot believe that a 41 year old junkie does not have the intelligence to sacrifice a young mind to do what he/she wants them to do. If you do, then you need to step back and look in a different light.

PLEASE do not take this as a bash...it is NOT...It is a passion of a mature, caring, intelligent parent. No more No less......

Let me give you an idea of the way the sick people think when it comes to boys and girls. when I first got int Law Enforcemnt I went into a courtroom that was playing an audio tape of a male voice. the person was being interviewed by detectives. The qquestion I heard is how did you know the girl liked you and all he stated was they could not keep thier hands off of him and he loved the smell of thier hair. He sounded like he was talking about an adult he had been dating and that it was someone who showed alot of sexual intent towards him. At the end of the case I found he was guilty and a life sentence and that lovely lady in his mind was a year year old little girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donalds1
I am starting to notice a trend in non members to include those who do not have or had tanks in awhile starting to rock the boat with a purpose other then just a discussion nor a resolution.


Thank you for saying it, so I didn't have to...not that it's my place considering my membership status. Some of these people have never been so active on this forum until this happened.

Also I'd like to note that it's interesting that a non-member would be so concerned with what the BoD is doing. Last I checked, the BoD was for the club members.

i am a new old member.i was on one of the original bods of the arc.it seems to me if every time someone posts with a difference of opinion or even an obvious dig at the bods actions,you find it nessesary to retaliate in kind i would consider that leading with the chin.

pointing the finger at a non member who you consider to be bucking your system (fictional or real) really looks bad.and does nothing to further the clubs cause or to foster any sort of comeraderie.

just looking around on some of the posts it reminds me of the arc right after we went online 5 or 6 years ago.the majority of the antagonists are fueled by the antogonees and most of the antagonees are ranking club members on the bod.this is not meant to step on any of your toes but a little restraint of pen and tongue might help take your cause to a new level.

CURTIS WRIGHT AKA WASABI

Let me give you an idea of the way the sick people think when it comes to boys and girls. when I first got int Law Enforcemnt I went into a courtroom that was playing an audio tape of a male voice. the person was being interviewed by detectives. The qquestion I heard is how did you know the girl liked you and all he stated was they could not keep thier hands off of him and he loved the smell of thier hair. He sounded like he was talking about an adult he had been dating and that it was someone who showed alot of sexual intent towards him. At the end of the case I found he was guilty and a life sentence and that lovely lady in his mind was a year year old little girl.
You Sir,,, are a far better man than I.
The table would not be able to get wide enough between the man making those staments and my self. may be why I don't have your job.

with respect
Chris Carella

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8800

MRC as a sponsor is a moot issue....

wow my mispells are bad. The girl was 10 years old not year year and she is now 19 and doing well thanks for her family support.

The term pedophile and child molester has shown up in this thread a bizillion times, but did anyone pay attention to the last news clip that was linked to in this forum? Look somewhere around post #150, I forgot who posted it, but the news clip purely states that this guy "MADE NO ATTEMPT TO MEET THE 14yo", who turned out not to be a 14yo at all.

I'M NOT ADVOCATING HIS ACTIONS, I'M NOT ADVOCATING HIS ACTIONS, I'M NOT ADVOCATING HIS ACTION X 1 GOOGLE, but...........

You are slandering this man if you have labeled him as a child molester or pedophile. He never intiated real time contact with "the 14yo" either in person or even over the phone.

HIS ACTIONS ARE NOT EXCUSABLE!

BUT............

The members in THIS forum, in THIS VERY THREAD have proven that people do/say things on the internet that would never happen face to face. Stroid, Platy, and Mojo would have quietly agreed to disagree in person, and never bother to speak to each other again in real time, but came to loggerheads on the forum. People act in a different manor on the internet all the time.

I believe in Europe, unless they recently changed the laws, that what he did isn't even a midomeaner offense, given that it was a cop he was typing to and camming for.

He did what hew did, but let's remember that what he DID is ALL he is accused of doing.

I'm not defending his actions in any way, I'm just suggesting that we put down the pitch forks and torches a minute or two. You guys are on the verge of a mob mentality and you ARE dangerous as well.

YOU'VE READ THIS FAR, I BEG YOU TO READ A LITTLE FURTHER.......

I'm willing to look at this from an unjudgemental angle, and am willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, this is true....... If you disagree with my opinion then feel free to disagree.

I have a 6yo son that is my life! THAT IS MY LIFE!!!!!!

Before ANYONE comes off the cuff about MY character for having offered a monocrom of defense for this man, THINK LONG AND HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!


Such acusations would NOT be taken lightly!

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8800

MRC as a sponsor is a moot issue....

This (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8800)my friends, is an excelent example of why the BoD has a process to how we handle club decisions reguardless of personal opinions.
As Chris (mojo) mentioned in the thread listed, MRC as a sponsor is still "pending review" for discussion at the upcoming Board of Directors meeting (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8654). I encourage all members to come participate.
Thanks for everyones support. See you at the BoD meeting!

I agree to a point and he has not been found guilty at this time. But his intent was he thought he was on camera with a 14 year and in his mind he was, so what was his intent ? I agree that a lewed act with a sexual act with the intent it was a minor would be a better way to put it. But in no way is this any less then a felony by his intent alone IF those are the facts we were presented with from the news.

My own feeling is that MRC has been bought out so nothing more should be said about getting rid of them. My opinion and yes just my opinion is that the BOD i have come to trust since I have been a member for about 4 plus years now needs a chance to put thoughts together and come up with a plan on dealing with minors but remember everyone if you do not give them feed back properly for suggestions on how to handle that matter then we cant complain when they come up with a resolve to this matter. So if you can go to the BOD meeting please go and if not PM one of them and tell them your suggestions. They do listen.

I so could go off big time here but Im afraid that I may be preaching to someone that does not have children in this day and age

I have a daughter who turned 23 years old today and a son who is 13. I congratulate you for having perfect children. I, unfortunately, do not. That's one of the reasons my computer has to be pass-word protected when I'm not home, which totals about 2 hrs/daily.

My daughter was once heavily involved in the online world of chat rooms, RP games, messenger programs, online profile/journal sites, etc. During a time (her early-mid teens) when there was a deterioration of her stable emotional family environment and her parents were not so accessable to her, she turned to the 'Net for friends, attention, acceptance, thrills. I caught more than a little glimpse into that world while she was into that and the things that *kids* do online is mind-boggling. Thankfully, she's now off the computer completely (not even an internet connection or email, unless she goes to the library) and is in a mature, 2-year relationship with someone her own age that she cares for very much.

My entire point was this: a lot of those kids online are very willing *victims* who portray themselves as adults with adult behaviors, yet are not subject to adult consequences for their actions.

Parents should be aware, should not turn a blind eye to what their teenagers are doing and should not be so quick to put the blame on everyone else.

That I do agree with. When you think your child is perfect you better watch out.

I have a daughter who turned 23 years old today and a son who is 13. I congratulate you for having perfect children. I, unfortunately, do not. That's one of the reasons my computer has to be pass-word protected when I'm not home, which totals about 2 hrs/daily.

My daughter was once heavily involved in the online world of chat rooms, RP games, messenger programs, online profile/journal sites, etc. During a time (her early-mid teens) when there was a deterioration of her stable emotional family environment and her parents were not so accessable to her, she turned to the 'Net for friends, attention, acceptance, thrills. I caught more than a little glimpse into that world while she was into that and the things that *kids* do online is mind-boggling. Thankfully, she's now off the computer completely (not even an internet connection or email, unless she goes to the library) and is in a mature, 2-year relationship with someone her own age that she cares for very much.

My entire point was this: a lot of those kids online are very willing *victims* who portray themselves as adults with adult behaviors, yet are not subject to adult consequences for their actions.

Parents should be aware, should not turn a blind eye to what their teenagers are doing and should not be so quick to put the blame on everyone else.

I agree whole heartedly Linda its soooooo scary..We teach them right from wrong, good and bad and hope they understand. Again I was not questioning you at all Linda, I hope you saw and know that :) Im pretty sure if you (whomever said perfect) look, I never said I had perfect children, dream yes, perfect no, lol I say again, I am blessed.

i am a new old member.i was on one of the original bods of the arc.it seems to me if every time someone posts with a difference of opinion or even an obvious dig at the bods actions,you find it nessesary to retaliate in kind i would consider that leading with the chin.

pointing the finger at a non member who you consider to be bucking your system (fictional or real) really looks bad.and does nothing to further the clubs cause or to foster any sort of comeraderie.

just looking around on some of the posts it reminds me of the arc right after we went online 5 or 6 years ago.the majority of the antagonists are fueled by the antogonees and most of the antagonees are ranking club members on the bod.this is not meant to step on any of your toes but a little restraint of pen and tongue might help take your cause to a new level.

CURTIS WRIGHT AKA WASABI

Congratulations on joining ARC again. It's unfortunate that it took these circumstances to bring you back.

I don't think I "retaliate" every time someone mentions the BoD. I just find it slightly ridiculous that people who aren't members give a crap what the BoD does or doesn't do. Obviously they are non-members for a reason.

WHy is it the people that ran off and started their own club(Atlanta-smas) are suddenly back here worrying about this club? YOu thought so little of the ARC before that you took your toys elsewhere. Now you're suddenly concerned about what the BOD/Mods are doing. Shouldn't you be taking care of your own club?

That may have been a bit much.... The entire situation of this thread is settling, let's let the smoke clear :)

WHy is it the people that ran off and started their own club(Atlanta-smas) are suddenly back here worrying about this club? YOu thought so little of the ARC before that you took your toys elsewhere. Now you're suddenly concerned about what the BOD/Mods are doing. Shouldn't you be taking care of your own club?
Anyone may post and comment here, as long as they follow the rules and the spirit of the board. Having said that, Tony's right - this might have been a bit much.

I wasn't trying to stir up anymore ****. I just find it odd.
My sincerest apologies. At least I left out the JTDC part this time.

if you are refering to me .you dont have your facts lined up.why it is true that i founded the club i did absolutely nothing to start the club or get it off the ground.i have not attended a meeting in over 2 years.now my friends who i see regularly are members of both clubs.i hope to attend a meeting soon. i am setting up a tank for my wife it was always a lot of fun obtaining and exchanging frags,and seeing the people i became friends with . im not really sure who you are platypuss but i can feel your warmth.oh by the way when i did attend meetings at the other club i dont believe anyone referred to it as their own club....it was more like a group of friends, i'm pretty sure that is what this club(the arc)is when you meet face to face.

The term pedophile and child molester has shown up in this thread a bizillion times, but did anyone pay attention to the last news clip that was linked to in this forum? Look somewhere around post #150, I forgot who posted it, but the news clip purely states that this guy "MADE NO ATTEMPT TO MEET THE 14yo", who turned out not to be a 14yo at all.Assuming he did what he is accused of he is a pedophile and a child molester or at least a person who attepted to do such in the former title. I pedophile is a medical diagnosis that simply states a person has an attraction to a prepubesent child. You can argue 14 doesn't consitute this, but I would disagree. 14 is still a child. As for molester... showing a child pornography is child molestation under the law. Had he contact with the minor that would be Sexual Assualt.

I kind of understand what you are saying but you have to realize that a person just doesn't wake up one day and commit acts with a child (generally speaking). It is a road they travel pushing the boundries each time. Had he gotten away with this he could have easily tried to progress further the next time. As you can't convict someone for what they might do, it becomes a strictly an academic discussion but the acts that he is charged with are both pedophile in nature and child molestation legally and morally.

I wasn't trying to stir up anymore ****. I just find it odd.
My sincerest apologies. At least I left out the JTDC part this time.My days of playing nice on this kind of stuff is over and if I am asked to leave because of it fine. Enough BS on this crap and if you aren't a real member of the club as in you have paid dues which I am guessing you haven't since you are missing a fish by your name... you should really shut up about what is and isn't said by members regarding their leadership.

and why I am at the complaining and off topic why does a non member even get to post in Club Announcements to begin with?

My days of playing nice on this kind of stuff is over and if I am asked to leave because of it fine. Enough BS on this crap and if you aren't a real member of the club as in you have paid dues which I am guessing you haven't since you are missing a fish by your name... you should really shut up about what is and isn't said by members regarding their leadership.
Ohhhh He's taking of the kid gloves. Shut up? Sorry pal, but it isn't going to happen. Because I asked a question that you don't like isn;t going to cut it.

Maybe I should pull a _________ and rejoin the club. That way you couldn't question why a non-member is posting club announcements. Would that be too transparent?

Cool off guys. PMs sent.

Now that we all can see that everyone is aware of the situation and that MRC has been bought out by someone the club respects maybe we should consider finding a way of healing instead of sparking up something totally different then what the main discussion was about. Non member or not I think we can figure out a way to respect the emotions involved in this event and move on.

Now that we all can see that everyone is aware of the situation and that MRC has been bought out by someone the club respects maybe we should consider finding a way of healing instead of sparking up something totally different then what the main discussion was about. Non member or not I think we can figure out a way to respect the emotions involved in this event and move on.

The topic of what can a paying member do and what can't a non-paying member do would be a great topic for a *Vent/Rant/Head2Head* forum.

Ok- tempers are really flaring now. I'm closing this thread, since it's gone WAY off topic.