View Full Version : Salinity Question


nmr2930
12-12-2011, 7:43 PM
I have been using salinity for a year + now. I would like to know why is there always a white residue after I mix it. I have tried adding it slowly.. but every time I 'm done mixing...there it is... on the inside walls.. the white residue the mixing container (brut garbage can), the power heads. Is there something I'm doing wrong..

Dakota9
12-12-2011, 7:53 PM
I used a Tunze 6025 in my mixing container and the residue from salinity has completely ruined the look of the pump.... My mixing container is a Ropak screwtop tub,and the inside is pitted from repeatedly wiping off the residue.

Arg........ It's messy, but such great salt!

Smallblock
12-12-2011, 8:00 PM
whatever, there is a way to do it.

Edit: http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=48306&highlight=salinity

Edit: I can't find the other thread where Seachem responded, its a pretty long thread and they explain it in detail. After I started using it I made it my mission to follow the advice of seachem and see if I could pull it off. Basically what you need is patience. My water changes are 20 gallons. So I have the 20 gallons of RODI water, I add about 4 cups right off the bat, let that mix for a few mins then add about 2 more full cups. Then I slow it down and add half a cup at a time about every 10 mins. You have to refrain from dumping it in all at once. Another tip is when you add your cups and your half cups pour the salt in slowely dont dump it in. Sprinkle it. Alot of people whine that they don't have the time and just deal with the film. I have the few extra mins and do it right and I have ZERO film.

Hope this helps.

In my link was the first times I was figuring out how to do it and took it really slow. Way too slow. I do it how I described in this thread now to cut down on time.

Search for that other thread that seachem was involved in and it will explain in detail what is happening and what the film is. The film is basically calcium snow. You get is because you add the salt to quickly to the water and it can't absorb it properlly and snows it out.

Dakota9
12-12-2011, 8:32 PM
Cool, abrasively worded, but thanks.....

Smallblock
12-12-2011, 8:54 PM
Sorry, to me it just seemed like you were blaming salinity for ruining the look of your high dollar pump when thats not really the case. This salt has been out for a couple of years now and this topic has been touched on quite a few times. I didn't want to OP to be turned off of one of the best salts on the market for fear of it ruining his equipment.

Tangaray
12-12-2011, 9:26 PM
well first off I would like to thank you guys for asking and answering a question that I had as well. I have used Red Sea Coral Pro Salt for the two years that I have had my 90 and my wifes 60 cube up. Recently went to LFS and they did not have any Red Sea, so I purchased Salinity instead. ( this sounds stupid but I really love the bucket ) I have had the film problem with my water changes since I switched and have been unsure why. I do 15 gallons a week in my 90 and 10 gallons a week in my wifes 60 cube so I was really worried about the how this film would affect my tanks long term. So again thanks for the post I feel better now.

Seachem
12-13-2011, 8:10 AM
Thank you for your question, Tangaray, and everyone else for your input!

The residue that is left in the container is a direct result of
1. the highly concentrated materials used in the salt
2. letting it mix too long
3. a natural occurrence when mixing a high quality salt.

We do an acid wash on our buckets about once a month. This can be done at home simply using Acid Buffer and water. Your bucket will be clean instantly and easily.

Have a great day!

rdnelson99
12-13-2011, 10:42 AM
Is Acid Buffer available in common form or is it something that needs to be purchased?

JennM
12-13-2011, 10:54 AM
Seachem Acid Buffer - it's a freshwater product. You can usually find it where you buy your Salinity :)

Jenn

Seachem
12-13-2011, 11:04 AM
Acid Buffer should be available from most of the local stores that carry freshwater. If you cannot find a store that carries it, they should be able to special order it for you.

rdnelson99
12-13-2011, 2:42 PM
Hmmmmmm I wonder if there are any stores in Canton that carry it? LOL Thanks guys. I appreciate the info.

Seachem
12-13-2011, 2:45 PM
I know of a good one. Wink, Wink;)

rdnelson99
12-13-2011, 2:46 PM
Yes, I guess I do too. Happens to be my fav store too. LOL

Seachem
12-13-2011, 2:52 PM
We happen to be fond of it as well!

nmr2930
01-15-2012, 12:01 PM
Ive notice that mixing over 2 days at cooler temperatures works perfect!!!

nmr2930
01-15-2012, 12:02 PM
Thanks everyone

Seachem
01-16-2012, 8:43 AM
Thanks to all for the input!

wmboots
01-16-2012, 5:05 PM
I am biting my tounge and doing my best to not respond to this thread

SuperClown
01-16-2012, 5:34 PM
I've been using it for some time now. I add slowly and most of he time have no problems with dust after

grouper therapy
01-16-2012, 10:36 PM
Help me understand the savings here. Why is there residue left in the container? What is it? Was it paid for? Now an additional purchase is necessary to remove it not to mention the additional labor. Limited time of mixing before use? Mixing slowly? I'm sorry guys I have a hard time understanding it's value.

Seachem
01-17-2012, 9:47 AM
Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your posts. As Smallblock mentioned, there was quite a detailed thread about this some time ago. Here is an excerpt of the response (as it applies to this thread) that we posted in hopes of helping people to understand why salinity is so different from all other salts available on the market:

"First and foremost, if anyone ever has trouble with any of our products, please don't hesitate to call or email us regarding the issue. We take these things very seriously and sometimes do not come across these posts for a while, which makes it hard to address the issues at hand. We want our customers to be 100% satisfied and will do everything in our power to make that happen. This is not only our job, but also our passion.

As for the Salinity, it is a little disconcerting that so many of you are having difficulty with the salt. This is the highest quality salt on the market right now and we go to great lengths to achieve that.

The Salinity is not an out sourced salt like other salts on the market, including our Reef and Marine Salts. We batch Salinity right here in our facility in GA in very small batches. This allows for us to have much greater quality control over the salt itself. The elements used in this salt are anhydrous materials, meaning they do not contain unneeded water molecules that can cause variance in the weight of the compound. This is what accounts for its high concentration and the burn that some of you may have experienced as the materials can produce quite a bit of heat when they react with water. Once we have tested the salt in our labs and it meets our standards, we then send it to an EPA registered lab where it gets tested with high quality laboratory grade testing equipment. Those results are printed on a label for each batch and sent back to our facility. Not only do we include the exact numbers that you will find in each bucket, we have also include average numbers from different oceans around the world, in addition to a maximum and a minimum that surround those ocean values. The numbers in each bucket will never fall outside of that min/max range. Furthermore, those numbers are guaranteed at a SALINITY of 35ppt or SG of 1.026, which is determined with a laboratory-grade digital refractometer.

When mixing this salt, we have found that 24 hours or less is ideal. The longer you let the salt mix, the more C02 it will take on and the more precipitation you will encounter. C02 --> water --> carbonic acid --> bicarbonates/carbonates. Mixing the salt for more than 24 hours can cause a decrease in alkalinity and pH, resulting in a precipitation of calcium and carbonates. When we mix it here at Seachem, we mix it in 50 gallon drums with one powerhead at room temperature (22-25 degrees Centigrade). There is no need to use a heater. Typically the water is clear within a few hours but sometimes we have to use it within an hour of mixing, when it is still cloudy. This cloudiness clears rapidly once introduced to the tank, generally within 30 minutes, and will not cause any harm to the inhabitants. Furthermore, cloudiness seems to persist more with buckets that have calcium and alkalinity levels on the higher end of the range. This is really inevitable when you have such high levels of those particular components.

The odor that may be experienced is quite normal. Again, because of the anhydrous materials used in Salinity, it can take on a little moisture from the atmosphere, causing an unpleasant odor not evident in other salts that use hydrous components. Not only that, but we also match the sulfate content of natural sea water, which means we add more sulfates than other salts, giving it an unusual odor.

The residue that is left in the container is a direct result of 1. the highly concentrated materials used in the salt, 2. letting it mix too long 3. a natural occurrence when mixing a high quality salt. We do an acid wash on our buckets about once a month. This can be done at home simply using Acid Buffer and water. Your bucket will be clean instantly and easily.

I hope that this information has been helpful to you all and please, don't ever hesitate to give us a call when something is wrong. Even when you are getting low numbers on salt, whichever salt of ours that may be, call us and tell us about it and we will look into it. We want you to be successful in the hobby.

Sorry for such a long, elaborate post, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible and hopefully answer all of your questions. Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns. Thanks!"

LilRobb
01-17-2012, 9:53 AM
Thanks,

I mixed Salinity only maybe 5 times, and used different approaches, quick and hot water, slow and hot water, long and cold and long and hot as well as super slow and cold.

All left an undesirable residue (perfectly explained above) - my only question is, doesn't this inevitable precipitation then change the claimed trace element levels?
It's obviously not in my water if it is on the bottom of the barrel...

grouper therapy
01-17-2012, 10:17 AM
So by using the anhydrous materials you are able to more accurately control the "numbers" thereby keeping them with in the min/ max. Does the precipitation that occurs outside the aquarium effect those numbers? Do your other salt mixes' numbers fall out of those min/max ranges?

mysterybox
01-17-2012, 10:28 AM
FYI: When I test my Tank after a water change, all Parems are always spot on.

That's why I continue to use it, and whatever has precipitated out has not caused enough deviation to worry about, IMHO.

izoid
01-17-2012, 11:42 AM
If the salt mix leaves behind a residue, which it does, will that same reside be left in our tanks? It stands to reason that over time we may get some build up in our pumps, rock, etc.

Seachem
01-17-2012, 4:11 PM
The levels are not impacted by any significant degree, especially if you mix it according to our recommendation. If you let it mix for a long period of time, than there is more potential for the levels to change, but even then, it would be very minimal. We tested a customers salt and let it mix for over a week and the parameters barely changed from the guaranteed numbers that were listed on the bucket. By using anhydrous materials, we are able to have a much more concentrated salt (not loaded with water molecules), therefore, less salt is needed to reach your desired salinity (~<1/2 cup per gallon). Our other salts do not necessarily fall within that min/max range, as they are more variable because they do not have a guaranteed analysis. We have been using the Salinity salt for over 3 years in the tanks here at the office and we have not experienced any type of buildup within those systems.

wmboots
01-17-2012, 7:58 PM
Help me understand the savings here. Why is there residue left in the container? What is it? Was it paid for? Now an additional purchase is necessary to remove it not to mention the additional labor. Limited time of mixing before use? Mixing slowly? I'm sorry guys I have a hard time understanding it's value.

there ISN'T any value, Reef Crystals or Sea Salt (seachem product) do the same job without all the fuss and mess and for less $$$$$

use salinity for a year WON'T use again

I couldn't refrain any longer and I blame it on grouper for prodding me to respond :):):)

MvM
01-17-2012, 9:19 PM
I have used salinity, but use another very high end salt and get the same result. Residue on the pump and in the container. It doesn't bother me. In fact, sometimes the flakes of residue fall off and get pumped into my tank during water changes. No ill effects yet. What's the big deal?

Edit: And the reason you won't see any buildup in your tank is that the inhabitants are rapidly consuming the elements, thus reducing the levels and keeping them from precipitating.

cr500_af
01-17-2012, 9:55 PM
there ISN'T any value, Reef Crystals or Sea Salt (seachem product) do the same job without all the fuss and mess and for less $$$$$

use salinity for a year WON'T use again

I couldn't refrain any longer and I blame it on grouper for prodding me to respond :):):)


How do you figure? With RC or Seachem Reef salt, I've had to use alkalinity like it was going out of style. Don't have to "dose up" new water at all with Salinity.
If you figure what it can be bought for, the $/gal is very close... certainly not enough to say Salinity is "$$$$$". Unless of course you count what they advertise on the other buckets which comes out at about 1.021-1.022. Those "160g" buckets make about 120 when you mix it at what we use. Salinity does the advertised volume at 1.026.
Maybe Salinity is a little more per gallon, but not very much. And it is offset IMO by the fact that I don't have to use my test kits, supplements or time to make it right before using it.

grouper therapy
01-17-2012, 10:25 PM
how much does salinity run per gallon?

cr500_af
01-17-2012, 10:30 PM
how much does salinity run per gallon?


I think a common "good" price is $69 for 200 honest gallons worth, so $.35/gallon. I hope it went without saying that I meant per gallon of made water, not gallon of salt. :D
I know you can beat that on IO or RC, but to me the hassle and expense of dosing make up for it. IO (the last batch I used) had calcium of about 320. All of the other salts I used have produced low alkalinity (really low, like 1.5-2 meq/l) though the calcium was reasonable.

I don't mean to sound like a Salinity "fanboy". I am not opposed to other salts (if the price is in balance with the other factors), but it seems like Salinity is a target for bashing lately.

grouper therapy
01-17-2012, 10:58 PM
I guess it boils down to the value of not having to dose for some. I have used the lesser expensive salt mixes and never have predosed with positive results. I'm not bashing .I'm just trying to justify the added expense of it. It would seem to me that the added task of cleaning the mixing station and the inconvenience of a limited mixing time offsets the not having to predose advantage. I come in at around .25 for the salt I'm using at 1.026. But to each their own. I keep hoping someone can convince me. I'm going with all upper end equipment on my cube build so I am researching the salt mixes as well.:D

cr500_af
01-17-2012, 11:03 PM
I haven't had any issues with residue... no more than any other salt. Other salts leave a white residue, Salinity seems to leave a tan residue, but the amount is about the same. I guess I'm in the minority there... even though according to Seachem above it is partly due to mixing too long.

What's weird is that I've used Salinity water that has been mixed for months with no issues. I've always kept around 25 gallons mixed at all times (more if a WC is coming up) just in case... in a "reef emergency" I don't want to have to make water; I want to have it mixed and warm.

grouper therapy
01-17-2012, 11:14 PM
I haven't had any issues with residue... no more than any other salt. Other salts leave a white residue, Salinity seems to leave a tan residue, but the amount is about the same. I guess I'm in the minority there... even though according to Seachem above it is partly due to mixing too long.

What's weird is that I've used Salinity water that has been mixed for months with no issues. I've always kept around 25 gallons mixed at all times (more if a WC is coming up) just in case... in a "reef emergency" I don't want to have to make water; I want to have it mixed and warm.
Me too!!

mysterybox
01-17-2012, 11:21 PM
I like the fact that as long as you have water, you can mix this stuff and within' 2 hours do a water change and all parems are spot on.

cr500_af
01-18-2012, 12:06 AM
I like the fact that as long as you have water, you can mix this stuff and within' 2 hours do a water change and all parems are spot on.

I agree... I just don't know how quick I could get it up to temp (in a pinch), so I keep it mixed all the time even though that is supposedly not the best way.

mysterybox
01-18-2012, 12:32 AM
I agree... I just don't know how quick I could get it up to temp (in a pinch), so I keep it mixed all the time even though that is supposedly not the best way.


just get your water warm...

grouper therapy
01-18-2012, 12:47 AM
So do you guys dose any other calcium and alk between water changes? I fail to see how big of an impact a 25% water change with slightly lower calcium would have on the total system. I have never experienced any negative effects .

mysterybox
01-18-2012, 1:14 AM
I dose 2 part, auto dosing...rarely mag..


However, after a water change all parems are just like before water change..I'm only dosing usage.

Seachem
01-18-2012, 8:36 AM
Thanks for all the posts!

I guess, unfortunately, it comes down to the fact that Salinity may not be the salt for everyone. It all depends on each persons needs, as well as, what is best for their aquarium. At least the option is available for those that want it. :-)

wmboots
01-18-2012, 9:38 PM
you make a point about dosing alk, that is if you are reffering to sea salt which I did have to be on constant awarness of, but I've never had the issue with reef crystals. I currently use reef crystals and always find everything spot on. With salinity I constantly had to adjust PH and found either mag or alk needed dosing within 24 hours and I went through 3 buckets thinking it was a bad batch or just something I was doing.
The interesting thing is seachem out sources sea salt and I suspect RC, I/O, Sea Salt and host of other salts all come from the same place, much like the gasoline we pump no matter which station your at (many of the individual brands add their particular additives or so they say).

I know there are a couple individuals who think I have a vendetta going for seachem but I use many of their other products and I believe they are a top notch company but I know the issues I had with their high end salt and after buying into the hype and experiencing the issues I am more than just a bit dissapointed with this product.

This is exactly why I was doing my best not to respond to this thread as it is such a sensitive issue with me. And yes I did have a partial tank crash using salinity.

How do you figure? With RC or Seachem Reef salt, I've had to use alkalinity like it was going out of style. Don't have to "dose up" new water at all with Salinity.
If you figure what it can be bought for, the $/gal is very close... certainly not enough to say Salinity is "$$$$$". Unless of course you count what they advertise on the other buckets which comes out at about 1.021-1.022. Those "160g" buckets make about 120 when you mix it at what we use. Salinity does the advertised volume at 1.026.
Maybe Salinity is a little more per gallon, but not very much. And it is offset IMO by the fact that I don't have to use my test kits, supplements or time to make it right before using it.

cr500_af
01-18-2012, 9:54 PM
Strange that you had pH and alk issues... that's the only salt I've used that kept my pH above 8 without buffers, and the only one that gave me alk over 2.5 meq/l.
I wonder if there is something that differs tank to tank that makes one salt produce differently for different people. Amount/types of coral? Sandbed type and depth?

Seachem
01-19-2012, 10:08 AM
Yes, you are absolutely correct, cr500_af. Every tank is different and may have different parameters based on many variables. These variables can be from the things you mentioned, along with source water, mixing method, surrounding environment, etc. There are no 2 tanks alike, I can assure you. You may have the exact same setup as your neighbor and use the exact same methods for mixing salt, however, the outcome is different. This is really inevitable in most cases. There are simply too many factors involved.