When I started I bought all kinds of rock from all kinds of people - about 250 lb in all. well, it looks like 4 different kinds of rock in my tank and its killing me to look at it everyday.

Im thinking of just gutting all the rock and starting over with base rock.....any suggestions on how to do this?

Im thinking of getting 50# of base rock, keep it in the garage in a bin with PH and heater and some LR to seed with and when its ready removing half of my current rock and replacing it with my new. then repeat the process until all the rock is replaced. Is there a better way?


Anyone used this at all? Im thinking of starting with 50# to try it out.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-**********-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

Any suggestions on other places to find good base rock cheap? I really like the look of the rock above...

EDIT: what about this stuff? http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=100

I wouldn't do that, but then again, I'm cheap.......

Maybe a re-aquascaping is all you need?

Do you have pests you're trying to rid yourself of?

If you have a DSB I definitely wouldn't do it.... you'd stir up all sorts of nasties!

is this an established tank?

how long has the rock been in there?

If it has built up a good bacterial colony you'll probably cycle again

B

I wouldn't do it because it's a lot of work and money.... just pile enough corals in there and you won't be able to see the rock anyway '-)

But I suppose....if you cured/cycled the new LR in a holding tank...and maybe replaced only a portion at a time....you might avoid too nasty a cycle in the display.

Is it really that bad looking?

I wouldn't do that, but then again, I'm cheap.......

Maybe a re-aquascaping is all you need?

Do you have pests you're trying to rid yourself of?

If you have a DSB I definitely wouldn't do it.... you'd stir up all sorts of nasties!

I have re-aquascaped numerous times and im just not happy with the outcome. I do not have a DSB.

With the amount of rock I do have all purpled up and some pretty decent (but heavy peices) I think I can come out without spending too much once I sell of the old..it may take 6-8 months to recoop but thats ok.

I dont have any pests to speak of really -except maybe an aptaisa here or there

is this an established tank?

how long has the rock been in there?

If it has built up a good bacterial colony you'll probably cycle again

B

The rock has been in for about a year and was all established before i bought it. Thats why I kind of planned to do it in stages - I have 2 "bommies" in my tank and want to replace one at a time.

would I cause a cycle even if I cured the base rock for several weeks in the garage?

I wouldn't do it because it's a lot of work and money.... just pile enough corals in there and you won't be able to see the rock anyway '-)

But I suppose....if you cured/cycled the new LR in a holding tank...and maybe replaced only a portion at a time....you might avoid too nasty a cycle in the display.

Is it really that bad looking?

I hate it....I want to go much higher but this rock is too heavy for safe stacking

Im not worried about the amount of work, and not so much worried about the money aspect of it either...I just want it to look TOTM worthy

26993

can you cure the new rock in your sump? Get some marco and add it gradually after you keep it in the sump a month or so

You can also drill and use pvc rods to build it higher, I have a masonry bit if you're interested

can you cure the new rock in your sump? Get some marco and add it gradually after you keep it in the sump a month or so

You can also drill and use pvc rods to build it higher, I have a masonry bit if you're interested

I dont have any room in the sump but I do have about 40 lb of rock in my fuge I could swap out...Ill most likely just leave it in a big tub in my garage and use my discard water from WC's to fill it.

I drilled a bunch of rock during one of my rescapes before and it works well if you are using the right rock but mine didnt look very natural at all.

Who has experience with both marco and the BRS base rock? the price is about the same...

can you cure the new rock in your sump? Get some marco and add it gradually after you keep it in the sump a month or so

You can also drill and use pvc rods to build it higher, I have a masonry bit if you're interested


This is a good idea!

I think your tank looks great! Other than the rock having a slight "flapjack" look on the right hand side. You could try to stand it up a bit on that end.

Really, replacing that rock would be over-kill, rather than adding a few interesting pieces here and there....

I also used pvc pipe to build supports for the rock, that will lift the entire rockwork a bit and give it some stability.
I went with the big drain size one 6" (?) cut slices about the size of my sandbed then drilled the sides in several places to allow for critters to go in and out

ok, so you guys are getting thru to me a little bit here...

how about just going higher with the base rock and leaving most of what you see there? with some re-arragements...some of those peices are just massive and very heavy

I also used pvc pipe to build supports for the rock, that will lift the entire rockwork a bit and give it some stability.
I went with the big drain size one 6" (?) cut slices about the size of my sandbed then drilled the sides in several places to allow for critters to go in and out

How thick were your slices?

I used some 3" PVC rings too but ultimately abandoned them thru my scaping resets

I'll tell u what I do I got 3 separate piles o rock n my tank like 3 islands. 1 pile is all tonga branch, 1 is all tonga base, the other is dead birdsnests n coral heads. It looks neat I think separated like that

I can see some of those large pieces flipped on the side and built up a bit. Get some corals in there and in half a year you won't see much of the rock anyway.

Marco & the BRS rock are identical as far as I can tell. The Marco stuff comes from a quarry in FL. BRS may very well get their stuff at the same place. I have both and they are great rocks. Good shapes, fit together nicely, very porous, able to drill, etc.

If you are going to do this, curing & slowly adding would be the best way. Or adding a piece or two at a time to the DT. Doing it right (IMHO) will take a long time (think like 1 year), but could be done with minimal impact. Too much too fast will cause a cycle and be fairly unpleasant. It's a matter of determining where that line is based on your system.

How thick were your slices?

I used some 3" PVC rings too but ultimately abandoned them thru my scaping resets

about 2" but it was the larger pipe so it has more stability. And under large pieces I used more than one pvc support. If you cut them too high you can always add sand around the base of the rock

I can see some of those large pieces flipped on the side and built up a bit. Get some corals in there and in half a year you won't see much of the rock anyway.

Yes, with some care - a couple of those rocks can be turned to give more height

Marco & the BRS rock are identical as far as I can tell. The Marco stuff comes from a quarry in FL. BRS may very well get their stuff at the same place. I have both and they are great rocks. Good shapes, fit together nicely, very porous, able to drill, etc.

If you are going to do this, curing & slowly adding would be the best way. Or adding a piece or two at a time to the DT. Doing it right (IMHO) will take a long time (think like 1 year), but could be done with minimal impact. Too much too fast will cause a cycle and be fairly unpleasant. It's a matter of determining where that line is based on your system.

Im glad you said that - I order from BRS all the time and am pretty loyal to them for certain things, had 3 deliveries just in the last 2 weeks....all things local sponsors dont carry.

I could actually move all of the rock you see on the right to the left...creatively to make it all fit. Then I could start my new rock on that right side...? I think I would still cycle the base rock for several weeks in a tub before I did this...thoughts? Then slowly remove unwanted rock from the left once the new rock is fully cycled?

I'll tell u what I do I got 3 separate piles o rock n my tank like 3 islands. 1 pile is all tonga branch, 1 is all tonga base, the other is dead birdsnests n coral heads. It looks neat I think separated like that

Not a bad idea to try to organize some of my rock by type too..

I could actually move all of the rock you see on the right to the left...creatively to make it all fit. Then I could start my new rock on that right side...? I think I would still cycle the base rock for several weeks in a tub before I did this...thoughts? Then slowly remove unwanted rock from the left once the new rock is fully cycled?

that sounds like a good plan, I think another 40 lbs of marco/brs would do the trick. Maybe left the 2 piles separate like the post above suggested

ok, good plan...feeling good about it

Here are a couple of rock choices, help me decide

BRS - Reef Saver Rock - most economical
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-**********-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

or

BRS - Pukani Rock - more expensive but the reviews on this stuff are awesome - more yield than the Saver rock
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-pukani-dry-aquarium-eco-rock.html

hard to tell, cheaper looks like normal marco rock and has exactly the same price for 50#

hard to tell, cheaper looks like normal marco rock and has exactly the same price for 50#

That pukani is supposedly going to be bigger peices and lighter - so a 50# box of this stuff should go further than the other...the difference is about $40 for 50#

EDIT: Oh, and BRS is giving 50 BRS Points per lb on the pukani - so If I order 50 lb then it will give me 2500 BRS point or $25 off my next purchase...I just did this with my dosers and got $30 worth of BRS points

Sounds like the Pukani may be the way to go.

As for your cycling question, again, it all depends on how much you do at once. You have a 210 gallon (IIRC) tank with a few hundred poounds of liverock. If you put 10# of dry rock in, it's not likely going to do anything. However, if you pull OUT 50# and put 50# IN, then you may experience something in the line of a cycle. It's all about the bioload you currently have and how well the tank can adjust. Many factors... Go slow and learn as you go.

Sounds like the Pukani may be the way to go.

As for your cycling question, again, it all depends on how much you do at once. You have a 210 gallon (IIRC) tank with a few hundred poounds of liverock. If you put 10# of dry rock in, it's not likely going to do anything. However, if you pull OUT 50# and put 50# IN, then you may experience something in the line of a cycle. It's all about the bioload you currently have and how well the tank can adjust. Many factors... Go slow and learn as you go.


yes, you recall correctly but only about 200# of rock in the display, maybe less - I think what im going to do after everyones feedback is move all the rock on the right to the left. If I do this right then nothing will be removed that hasnt already been replaced. so instead of 50# out, 50# in - it will be more like 50# in...wait a few weeks then 10# out..than another week remove another 10# at a time

The tank has been set up as a reef for almost a year now. My bio load is pretty light overall at the moment, this will change eventually so I wanted to do this while I have the opportunity.

Im going to order 50# of the pukani in a moment

just ordered it.......

hey man i saw the picture. I dont think you have a bad setup really. It looks a LOT like mine did haha. the thing is you've got to plan ahead and let your corals grow your reef structure. ... i could see caps around the bottom of those mounds, some big SPS growing off the sides and bridging the gap between the 2.

IMO. Create a very OPEN structure .. get you some nice frags glue them on the rock and let it grow in over a year.

B

hey man i saw the picture. I dont think you have a bad setup really. It looks a LOT like mine did haha. the thing is you've got to plan ahead and let your corals grow your reef structure. ... i could see caps around the bottom of those mounds, some big SPS growing off the sides and bridging the gap between the 2.

IMO. Create a very OPEN structure .. get you some nice frags glue them on the rock and let it grow in over a year.

B

I want it to be nice and open but taller than it is now on the 2 islands..the pic is old - I have about 100-150 frags and about 50-60 other corals in there now, including a mini basketball sized stag.

Im trying to keep the middle wide open - first because I have a massive brace that hinders my reach and second is the 3/4" thick brace cuts back alot of my light. I may just put all of my low light corals and cyphastrea on teh SB in the middle

Not to sound argumentative here, but, I'm confused as to why the prevailing opinion is that adding base rock would cause a cycle? A cycle is caused by organic material decomposing. The Marco rock I used in setting up my 180 was 100% "cycled" in that there was no organic material to die off. I understand not wanting to remove all the live rock (or a large portion of it) as this would reduce the ability of the tank system to process nitrates, but, that's not a cycle, it's a bio-load issue.

I think you'll be fine with this. I put all of my cured live rock into my fuge and sump and used only base rock in my display as I want to customize the look and didn't wanna kill off my live rock. I stuff yer fuge with as much of your rock as it can hold and go ahead and reaquascape your display with the BRS rock. FWIW, when I first had my tank cycling, the marco rock had no testable impact on tank parameters (at least with the test kits I was using). This was with about 300 gallons of water, no live sand or rock, and about 200 lbs of Marco rock in the display.

The BRS Pukani product description does not state if this is just dried live rock or cured dried live rock. The BRS Eco Rox is the same stuff as the Marco Key Largo, and it is quarried, so it will not induce a cycle because it has no organics on/in it. Just needs a rinse in tap water to remove any dust. A call to BRS to ask about the Pukani will tell you if it is uncured. I'd look for a cycle on the Pukani if it is just dried rock that has been pulled from the reef then dried out and sold.

The BRS Pukani product description does not state if this is just dried live rock or cured dried live rock. The BRS Eco Rox is the same stuff as the Marco Key Largo, and it is quarried, so it will not induce a cycle because it has no organics on/in it. Just needs a rinse in tap water to remove any dust. A call to BRS to ask about the Pukani will tell you if it is uncured. I'd look for a cycle on the Pukani if it is just dried rock that has been pulled from the reef then dried out and sold.

Of the 27 online reveiws of the pukani (all excellent) a couple mentioned a good bit of dried organic matter on the rock. one noted it took several weeks of cycling and skimming before he was able to add to the DT.

Not to sound argumentative here, but, I'm confused as to why the prevailing opinion is that adding base rock would cause a cycle? A cycle is caused by organic material decomposing. The Marco rock I used in setting up my 180 was 100% "cycled" in that there was no organic material to die off. I understand not wanting to remove all the live rock (or a large portion of it) as this would reduce the ability of the tank system to process nitrates, but, that's not a cycle, it's a bio-load issue.

I think you'll be fine with this. I put all of my cured live rock into my fuge and sump and used only base rock in my display as I want to customize the look and didn't wanna kill off my live rock. I stuff yer fuge with as much of your rock as it can hold and go ahead and reaquascape your display with the BRS rock. FWIW, when I first had my tank cycling, the marco rock had no testable impact on tank parameters (at least with the test kits I was using). This was with about 300 gallons of water, no live sand or rock, and about 200 lbs of Marco rock in the display.

I kind of thought the same thing - this is the whole reason I started the thread - to get as much feedback as possible.

Thanks guys - keep it coming

Gary,
If you want to drill it and attach it together I bought some fiberglass rod from Mcmaster Carr in 1/2" diameter and have all the drills and hydrolic cement which is the same stuff Sanjay used to assemble his rocks in his tank and that I am going to use on my Fiji rock. Just give me a call you have my number and more than willing to give you a hand. I would still place in a tote for a while and slowly add pieces just to be safe.

Gary,
If you want to drill it and attach it together I bought some fiberglass rod from Mcmaster Carr in 1/2" diameter and have all the drills and hydrolic cement which is the same stuff Sanjay used to assemble his rocks in his tank and that I am going to use on my Fiji rock. Just give me a call you have my number and more than willing to give you a hand. I would still place in a tote for a while and slowly add pieces just to be safe.

Thanks E - I will definatley want help! Musicalocean is going to handle the aquascape on the new rock - we will be using a little puddy and zip ties - no drilling or rods needed. now the rock currently in my tank that I want to keep will need to be drilled and rodded for sure....

I plan on doing nothing fast - I have plenty of time to wait...Im more concerned of doing it right then twice

Of the 27 online reveiws of the pukani (all excellent) a couple mentioned a good bit of dried organic matter on the rock. one noted it took several weeks of cycling and skimming before he was able to add to the DT.

OK, then that shows you the Pukani comes from the ocean, whereas the Eco Rox/Marco key largo is quarried.

OK, then that shows you the Pukani comes from the ocean, whereas the Eco Rox/Marco key largo is quarried.

You're right, I assumed it was quarried by the look of it but after you mentioned something I looked and found nothing the say it was quarried. Now Im mad at myself for not buying the more environmentally friendly rock...

further reading reveals it only comes in a few times a year and is rarely available....guess I got lucky, mine shipped today.

After getting home and looking in my tank it seems I have 30-40 lb just like it so it should match up nicely once its all colored up

I have about 100-150 frags and about 50-60 other corals.




Now that Im home looking at my tank I wayyy over exaggerated the statement above...more like 75 frags and 30 other corals :doh:

Im excited for the rock though, it already shipped so maybe Ill get it for the weekend to play with.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to wether I should add some LR from my sump to seed it? Or should I just see how much decay is on the rock first?

Does anyone have a suggestion as to wether I should add some LR from my sump to seed it? Or should I just see how much decay is on the rock first?

I assume you are referring to curing the new rock so, the answer is no. There's no need to seed. Let the cycle commence and take it's course. Skim it and do water changes and otherwise just pretend you're setting up a new tank (heaters, PH's etc.)

I assume you are referring to curing the new rock so, the answer is no. There's no need to seed. Let the cycle commence and take it's course. Skim it and do water changes and otherwise just pretend you're setting up a new tank (heaters, PH's etc.)

This was my plan - I planned to use my discard water from a WC to fill the bin I will put the rock in....good idea/bad idea? then using fresh saltwater for WC's of the bin from there on out..

This was my plan - I planned to use my discard water from a WC to fill the bin I will put the rock in....good idea/bad idea? then using fresh saltwater for WC's of the bin from there on out..

That water should do fine instead of tossing it for fresh water why not recycle it at all water changes! :)

That water should do fine instead of tossing it for fresh water why not recycle it at all water changes! :)

That makes sense to me! considering my weekly discard water is relatively clean...Nitrates around .2-1 ppm and 0 Phosphates (most of the time..lol)

Gary, why don't you seed the new rock in your tank? Just add a few pieces at a time and let it sit for a couple weeks, then take out a few pieces of the stuff you don't like and add some more new pieces. It might take a while, but I think it would be the most stable route. Also, try PMing Chris at Fish Scales, he's great with aquascaping.

Gary, why don't you seed the new rock in your tank? Just add a few pieces at a time and let it sit for a couple weeks, then take out a few pieces of the stuff you don't like and add some more new pieces. It might take a while, but I think it would be the most stable route. Also, try PMing Chris at Fish Scales, he's great with aquascaping.

I had given this some thought too but settled on just getting all of the rock ready, then I can move all the old rock on the right to the left and all the newly cyled rock in the empty part of the tank in one swoop, possibly in one or 3 prebuilt structures....just lower it into the tank and zip tie them together....I figured if anything this would be a more stable route. I would be effectively increasing my biological filtration by 50# and then I will strategically remove the rocks I dont want - say 10-15# at a time over several weeks - I will probably only remove 40-50# total.

musicalocean is going to help me build the structures. Plus - this rock im getting is like legos - I dont see how anyone can make it look bad...except me..lol

I had given this some thought too but settled on just getting all of the rock ready, then I can move all the old rock on the right to the left and all the newly cyled rock in the empty part of the tank in one swoop, possibly in one or 3 prebuilt structures....just lower it into the tank and zip tie them together....I figured if anything this would be a more stable route. I would be effectively increasing my biological filtration by 50# and then I will strategically remove the rocks I dont want - say 10-15# at a time over several weeks - I will probably only remove 40-50# total.

musicalocean is going to help me build the structures. Plus - this rock im getting is like legos - I dont see how anyone can make it look bad...except me..lol

That sounds like a really good plan. I'm the same way with aquascaping. I have a picture in my head and it never ends up looking anywhere close.

rock should be here in an hour or two!!! not bad! - free shipping and its only been 3 days since the order was placed..

I personally liked marco rocks a few years ago when they where shipping dry fiji. You could get huge pieces that were just amazing...

Well, here it is!! 50# of Pukani Dry Rock from BRS - $160 shipped and arrived in 3 days.

I just stacked it out of the box to take a pic - Ill have fun playing with it later.

Its about 4 large peices (bigger than a basketball) and 5 medium size peices. Left in the bag is about 7 lb of rubble...the box weighed 59 lb.

There is a little bit of decay matter on it so Im sure Ill get a spike when curing in the garage without having to intervene.

I may order some Fiji shelf rock (in stock right now!) to supplement some bridges - or I may not....Ill let the wallet decide

27012

Wow that rock is gorgeous! Can't wait to start on your tank. It's going to be so much fun :) thanks for letting me help out with it! I think we can make some really amazing structures with this..

Well, started to clean up my big rubbermaid to cycle the rock in and it isnt holding water......guess i need to make a trip to walmart this afternoon...