View Full Version : advice on ICH treatment


IVEgotCRABS
07-09-2010, 11:55 PM
i think my new coral beauty is showing signs of ich
i have been told that kick ich works and used it with wonderful results
just wanted opinions from all the hardcore reefers
this could also help new comers as well
i hope everyone pitches in
and NO LINKS please

125 gal
no corals in the tank
4 stripe damsel(leave me alone)
black percula clown
coral beauty
cleaner shrimp
3 mithrax crabs
1 turbo snail

i am adding a sump in 2 days

06Strom
07-10-2010, 12:24 AM
http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39323

I know you said no links, but this topic cannot be addressed in a sentence, paragraph, or even a single treatise.

The short of it is that there is no quick cure. I would encourage you to do some homework and draw your own conclusion.

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 12:27 AM
New fish is most likely stressed out. Do some reading. Ich can be very difficult to beet. I had a battle that lasted 3 or 4 months with my Tangs. I now keep my tank on UV with Vitamin C at all times and everyone is fine. I dont like chemicals.

Good luck to ya!

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 12:36 AM
keep em comin i want to here personal experiences not litirature
this is not just for me this is for all the new guys

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Qt the fish that u buy first. Learn how a fish acts when it has ich or any other issues for that matter. It's just experiance. I wish I could hand it to you cause I would. There is a very nice thread on the forum with lots of good info. You really should read this. Slow down, bad things happen so fast in this hobby!!!! Good takes forever!

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 12:57 AM
Qt the fish that u buy first. Learn how a fish acts when it has ich or any other issues for that matter. It's just experiance. I wish I could hand it to you cause I would. There is a very nice thread on the forum with lots of good info. You really should read this. Slow down, bad things happen so fast in this hobby!!!! Good takes forever!

well not forever, but certainly is not an overnight thing

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 1:05 AM
i think personal exp. is better
sometimes reading the articles can be confusing if your not an advanced marine biologist
just post what you did and how it worked for you
thanks again

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 1:16 AM
well feed with garlic, that well make the fish want to eat, and as long as the fish is eating and staying relatively healthy , the fish will survive and ice will run it's course....but that was just in my experiences

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 1:28 AM
i might try that thanks
come on guys what else you got

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 1:30 AM
well feed with garlic, that well make the fish want to eat, and as long as the fish is eating and staying relatively healthy , the fish will survive and ice will run it's course....but that was just in my experiences

ICK**...not ice

Smoothie
07-10-2010, 3:36 AM
QT first. Especially with an angel or any other iffy reef fish. You also get them accustomed to alot of different foods in doing so so that they are not "coral nippers."
Since it is already in the display up the vitamin enriched feeding and up the filtration especially small water changes

JennM
07-10-2010, 4:06 AM
And SLOW DOWN. That, IMO is the leading cause of disease outbreak.

I know you said, "No articles" but I'm posting a link to my article on quarantine and specimen selection. I'm not a scientist and I don't play one on TV and the article is as easy to read as one of my posts.

http://imagine-ocean.com/node/58

Before you treat for ich, be sure it's ich. There are plenty of things that have somewhat similar symptoms, but some of those don't respond to 'ich' treatments.

Jenn

Ralph ATL
07-10-2010, 9:31 AM
here are some things to read over:

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=281656 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=281656)

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php)

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php)

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html (http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html)

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx (http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx)

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ad.php?t=21804 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21804)

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forum...ead.php?t=3661 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3661)

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21804 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21804)

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=265394 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=265394)

:D

jmaneyapanda
07-10-2010, 9:40 AM
In all seriousness, and I dont mean to sound rude, but your approach of "just tell me what to do, and I dont care why" is going to destroy your interest in the system, and likely destroy your system too. I honestly feel you need to understand things like this, in order to better treat them, and even prevent them.

Before you even take 1 more step into this "hobby", you should ask yourself what you want from it. If you only want to look at pretty things, without understanding or doing the work, buy a video or hire a maintenance company. It YOU want to keep a reef aquarium, you'd beeter do some reading, online, in books, magazoines, and talk to some people. Looking for shortcuts, easy ways out, and refusing to learn is a recipe for failure.

Fish Scales2
07-10-2010, 9:42 AM
NO MEDS ARE NEEDED. I turn off lights when introducing new fish and I add them at night. (less likely to have any battles. Feed less food but more often. Use vitamins to help build immune system. And for you fish' sake get a small qt. Angels are suspect to osmotic shock as well.

Why would you not want links? It helps so much to read other peoples experiences.

Ralph ATL
07-10-2010, 10:01 AM
In all seriousness, and I dont mean to sound rude, but your approach of "just tell me what to do, and I dont care why" is going to destroy your interest in the system, and likely destroy your system too. I honestly feel you need to understand things like this, in order to better treat them, and even prevent them.

Before you even take 1 more step into this "hobby", you should ask yourself what you want from it. If you only want to look at pretty things, without understanding or doing the work, buy a video or hire a maintenance company. It YOU want to keep a reef aquarium, you'd beeter do some reading, online, in books, magazoines, and talk to some people. Looking for shortcuts, easy ways out, and refusing to learn is a recipe for failure.


i agree

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 10:44 AM
not what i meant here
you guys are taking this all wrong
jmaneyapanda i have read at least 30 to 60 articles on this and many other marine disiese(spell check)
i just wanted all of your adventures and tales of what works and what doesnt


thanks to all of you who actually gave your input but i give up on this thread
and by the way nothing will ever stop me from wanting to learn more about reef tanks. im not a quiter

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 11:15 AM
To your question...

Kick Ick is hit or miss..usually miss. It is potentially, reef safe. I have found through my travels that using garlic, feeding heavy and turning the lights down as mentioned earlier will assist in curing Ick. Ick is normally due to stress.....stress caused by new environments, sudden water temp changes or any other stressful condition. Angels which include Tangs are more prone to ick than most other fish.

Last resort should be chemicals. Chemicals should only be used in a QT environment. Copper will kill inverts and you can never remove it from a tank. You should never use a QT tank that had copper introduced to it for any reef setup again. Copper such as Cupramine will solve ick.

Once ick is introduced to your system, it remains dormant in the sand waiting on the right conditions to feast again. If a tank is left fishless for 30 days +, the ick will die.

I believe it is vital to follow the links and learn about ick and the stages. Once you understand it, it becomes much easier to treat and overcome. I believe others are only trying to help, not criticize. There is a whole lot of passion in this hobby.

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:38 AM
To your question...

Kick Ick is hit or miss..usually miss. It is potentially, reef safe. I have found through my travels that using garlic, feeding heavy and turning the lights down as mentioned earlier will assist in curing Ick. Ick is normally due to stress.....stress caused by new environments, sudden water temp changes or any other stressful condition. Angels which include Tangs are more prone to ick than most other fish.

Last resort should be chemicals. Chemicals should only be used in a QT environment. Copper will kill inverts and you can never remove it from a tank. You should never use a QT tank that had copper introduced to it for any reef setup again. Copper such as Cupramine will solve ick.

Once ick is introduced to your system, it remains dormant in the sand waiting on the right conditions to feast again. If a tank is left fishless for 30 days +, the ick will die.

I believe it is vital to follow the links and learn about ick and the stages. Once you understand it, it becomes much easier to treat and overcome. I believe others are only trying to help, not criticize. There is a whole lot of passion in this hobby.

maybe so but they did not read the post correctly i wanted personal experiences with this issue not links to things i ve probably already read
and ive read alot on this

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 11:45 AM
My input was based on my personal experience. When I first entered the hobby, I experienced Ick early on and it really makes you want to throw your hands up and say the he** with it all. Once you settle back down and understand it, you realize it can be defeated. Kick Ick was not my savior but it may? have helped. I firmly believe in the all natural appoach and feed garlic and vitamins (AminOmega) eveyday. No Ick outbreak in ages.

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:50 AM
My input was based on my personal experience. When I first entered the hobby, I experienced Ick early on and it really makes you want to throw your hands up and say the he** with it all. Once you settle back down and understand it, you realize it can be defeated. Kick Ick was not my savior but it may? have helped. I firmly believe in the all natural appoach and feed garlic and vitamins (AminOmega) eveyday. No Ick outbreak in ages.

so where can i get the garlic(brand) and the vitamins:up:

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:52 AM
by the way thanks for your exp treatment i was referring to the others who keep posting links

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 12:00 PM
No prob. All Things Aquatic had 8 oz Garlic Guard there that I purchased not too long ago. You may want to call John and see if he has any in stock. It'll last you a long time and I mean a real long time. ATA is the closet for reef supplies that we have as well and he's decent to deal with.

Prior to that I was using Garlic Power by Brightwell and I think I bought it at Optimum. It's a lot more expensive but also will last a while.

When you add the garlic, you don't need more than a drop or two in their food.

BTW, if you join the club, you can get the additional club discount at most of our sponsers stores! Well worth it.

Tony_Caliente
07-10-2010, 12:08 PM
I hear putting putting powder in your shoes works. LOL.
I had a trainer in college, that would recommed that regardless of your injury! I guess that's why D-1 schools up north never quite perform well.

Anyway, just some levity.

On a more serious note. Many times, as we all know, the infected fish don't eat regardless of how hardily they were eating the day before.

Amanda, from Seachem, doesn't believe there is a reef-friendly treatement out there. Don't shoot messenfer (or Amanda, she is super).

cr500_af
07-10-2010, 5:46 PM
I'm of the firm belief that "Kick-Ich" doesn't work. I also believe that anything short of UV exposure that will kill Ich is NOT reef-safe. My opinion is that it goes like this:
1. owner spots ich on fish.
2. owner does quick reading on what to do and runs off to store.
3. owner starts treatment
4. by a couple of days into treatment, the ich has finished its parasitic phase, and has dropped off the fish.

So, the owner believes that the stuff worked.
He or she may believe that for a long time, since it is very possible that the tank has remained stress-free for quite a while and the fish have avoided any further outbreaks.

I have had ONE fish show ich in my tank. It was very short-term, and I fed well... things turned out OK. Nothing (knock on wood) in over a year. However, I'm not naive enough to think that ich is not living in my system... just like 99% of the systems in our homes.

Tony_Caliente
07-10-2010, 6:15 PM
+1,000 on CR500's opinion
Some try feeding "metro" and a bonding agent, but what good is it if the aren't eating.
I also did that cleaner wrassee thing. I shoud have saved the $22. It got ick too and who knows what the heck they really eat. Probably excess mucus.........
I lost 4 fish, waited 2 months then added a "test" fish back. All is well. I will tell you my six line and one firefish survived. It all apparently started with a blue tang.

jmaneyapanda
07-10-2010, 6:46 PM
not what i meant here
you guys are taking this all wrong
jmaneyapanda i have read at least 30 to 60 articles on this and many other marine disiese(spell check)
i just wanted all of your adventures and tales of what works and what doesnt


thanks to all of you who actually gave your input but i give up on this thread
and by the way nothing will ever stop me from wanting to learn more about reef tanks. im not a quiter

so where can i get the garlic(brand) and the vitamins:up:

Ok, I done with your nonsense. Youve read 30-60 articles on marine disease, but dont know how to treat the most common, prolific, and most commonly treated disease?! And, then just flat out ask, what should I buy, and where? Good luck dude. I foresee failure. just my opinion.

jmaneyapanda
07-10-2010, 6:46 PM
I'm of the firm belief that "Kick-Ich" doesn't work. I also believe that anything short of UV exposure that will kill Ich is NOT reef-safe. My opinion is that it goes like this:
1. owner spots ich on fish.
2. owner does quick reading on what to do and runs off to store.
3. owner starts treatment
4. by a couple of days into treatment, the ich has finished its parasitic phase, and has dropped off the fish.

So, the owner believes that the stuff worked.
He or she may believe that for a long time, since it is very possible that the tank has remained stress-free for quite a while and the fish have avoided any further outbreaks.

I have had ONE fish show ich in my tank. It was very short-term, and I fed well... things turned out OK. Nothing (knock on wood) in over a year. However, I'm not naive enough to think that ich is not living in my system... just like 99% of the systems in our homes.


agreed 1 dillion percent.

Assault
07-10-2010, 7:29 PM
The only success story I've ever heard about Ich, is not adding it to your tank, Ich doesn't just come from sick fish, it can hitch a ride on corals, inverts, rock, equipment used in your tank, your hands, anything. Good QT methods and proper UV are what you need for Ich, six weeks QT to be sure, that's my opinion.

Fish Scales2
07-10-2010, 7:56 PM
Healthy fish will not show signs of ich, everyone of us has ich in our system whether we agree or not. Healthy fish cannot die from ich. Stressors are the primary cause. Usually ich is just a sign of other ailments or stress that have weakened the immune system.

Kinda like HIV and Aids. If you live healthy and eat properly and have HIV you will not go full blown.

Shrimpy Brains
07-10-2010, 8:03 PM
I agree with Assault. QT everything and you won't get ich in your DT!

I don't believe ich can be beat with vitamins. Yes, it will build the fish immune system and help it to fight off ich.
However, ich will still be in your system and feeding on your fish, just maybe not in numbers that are noticeable.

Ich is not a disease, it is a parasite.:eek: A living thing, that must be killed to get rid of.

If you truly want to rid ich from your system, you must pull all fish out for a period of 6 weeks. I know the cylcle is considered to be 4 weeks, but there are factors which can speed up/slow down this process. I recommend 6 or more weeks to be sure. During this time the ich will go thru 4 stages of life. At the stage where it would feed on your fish, there won't be any fish to feed on, and it will starve and die.

That takes care of the DT. During this time, you need to treat your fish(which are in QT) with either hyposalinity(maintained daily and accurately at 1.009) OR with copper. Do not do both.

Side note: The benefits from garlic(other than to stimulate appetite) are only present when garlic is freshly crushed. If you want to use garlic for it's anti-biotic value, get garlic cloves and crush them. Soak your fish food in this, no more than a minute, and feed immediately.

This is just my opinion and my experience.

Assault
07-10-2010, 8:08 PM
there's a difference between Ich being present in your system, and an Ich outbreak causing fish to die. A healthy fish will become very unhealthy pretty, quick in the presence of an Ich outbreak, QT methods are meant to control these outbreaks,

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 8:21 PM
I agree with Assault. QT everything and you won't get ich in your DT!

I don't believe ich can be beat with vitamins. Yes, it will build the fish immune system and help it to fight off ich.
However, ich will still be in your system and feeding on your fish, just maybe not in numbers that are noticeable.

Ich is not a disease, it is a parasite.:eek: A living thing, that must be killed to get rid of.

If you truly want to rid ich from your system, you must pull all fish out for a period of 6 weeks. I know the cylcle is considered to be 4 weeks, but there are factors which can speed up/slow down this process. I recommend 6 or more weeks to be sure. During this time the ich will go thru 4 stages of life. At the stage where it would feed on your fish, there won't be any fish to feed on, and it will starve and die.

That takes care of the DT. During this time, you need to treat your fish(which are in QT) with either hyposalinity(maintained daily and accurately at 1.009) OR with copper. Do not do both.

Side note: The benefits from garlic(other than to stimulate appetite) are only present when garlic is freshly crushed. If you want to use garlic for it's anti-biotic value, get garlic cloves and crush them. Soak your fish food in this, no more than a minute, and feed immediately.

This is just my opinion and my experience.

I never stated it can be beat with vitamins..please don't put my name by that statement (not that you did but I want to be clear). I stated that I use vitamins and garlic daily and never had an issue. I also did not state the purpose of the garlic. Garlic is intended to enhance food and make it enticing to eat for the fish. It has not been proven nor disproven to be beneficial to the immune system but the belief is it may have some health value as it does in human beings. Once again not proven. I have never heard of it being of anti biotic value. It works for me and I will continue to use it going forward.

Kick Ick may be reef safe. I say this because it seemingly does not work. If a product worked, chances are it would not not be reef safe. The studies I have done on it show it is basically harmless. I am sure there are others that say it does harm. I do not believe it works but I have reputable people in the field (including sponsers) that do testify that it works and they use it. Garlic Guard and others are useful not just freshly crushed garlic. That is why the product is made.

I just wanted to clarify my position. I believe in all natural approaches but also use vitamins as an all natural approach as well. QT is a preventive from spreading ich to other inhabitants. It does not stop ich. Even after a fish is QT'ed, once exposed to a DT, ich can still start up based on the stress level. My .02 and I am sure others will disagree which is to be expected in this hobby.

Shrimpy Brains
07-10-2010, 8:40 PM
There is so much lost, when reading, as opposed to hearing someone talk. I was only stating my opinion/experience, as the OP requested.

I apologize if it seemed to be anything else. :sad:

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 8:46 PM
There is so much lost, when reading, as opposed to hearing someone talk. I was only stating my opinion/experience, as the OP requested.

I apologize if it seemed to be anything else. :sad:

No problem. Forums and emails are soooo impersonal!!! :)

I just wanted to clarify myself. This is a very passionate hobby!!

Shrimpy Brains
07-10-2010, 9:12 PM
Not to threadjack, but here is a link about garlic. It is not the one I originally read, but it does have the basic info. If you google
garlic and allicin, you find alot of info. Thought it was interesting!

http://www.garlic-central.com/allicin.html

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 9:44 PM
NO MEDS ARE NEEDED. I turn off lights when introducing new fish and I add them at night. (less likely to have any battles. Feed less food but more often. Use vitamins to help build immune system. And for you fish' sake get a small qt. Angels are suspect to osmotic shock as well.

Why would you not want links? It helps so much to read other peoples experiences.

This is how I won. I tried everything, left the tank fallow for 80 days. Treated the fish in a glass bottom tank (75 gallon) 50% water changes every three days, Formalin/Formaldehyde with methylene blue dips, fresh water dips, hypo salinity. None of that crap worked NONE! 6 MONTH BATTLE and allot of money!! What worked for me is what Chris said, through the chemicals in the garbage, let them fish build its immune system back up, feed it high quality foods, and give it vitamins via water treatment (buffered sodium ascorbate - pure powder vitamin c) and let it come out of shock. If a human has immune system deficiency do you put them through chemotherapy. Also remember that to many antibiotics are just as bad. Last as I have stated along with several others, you have to slow down, read and QT........

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 10:05 PM
Healthy fish will not show signs of ich, everyone of us has ich in our system whether we agree or not. Healthy fish cannot die from ich. Stressors are the primary cause. Usually ich is just a sign of other ailments or stress that have weakened the immune system.

Kinda like HIV and Aids. If you live healthy and eat properly and have HIV you will not go full blown.

My conclusion after the worst outbreak I ever experienced lost a wonderful blond naso through it. Guess what! All the fish ended up in the tank as I ran out of money, feed them well and left them be added a new Naso and why is it that my fish are ich free! They are healthy and no longer stressed out. Eating well and taking 1 teaspoon of vitamin c into my 115 gallons of water a week. If they live healthy have clean water and the vitamins that they get when there in the ocean they will be healthy I promise. The harder you fight the more it wins. I think I spent 500.00 learning this. Yes my fish are in a tank that had an ich outbreak 12 months ago, 6 months ago, 3 months ago, and now no more. Hmmmm it disappeared. A stressed fish will get ich. I have added fish and have watched this happen. Chris is 1 million % right IMO and IME!

Assault
07-10-2010, 10:16 PM
I have had my share of stressed fish, but never a fish with Ich or any other health problems, I've never had any parasite problems whatsoever. I'd like to think it was because of the super long QT periods, or the UV doing it's job, or only buying from stores and members that practice good methods themselves. The guy that did maintenance on my tank taught me one thing. If anythings questionable don't do it. So nothing risky ever went in my tanks.

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 10:28 PM
I have had my share of stressed fish, but never a fish with Ich or any other health problems, I've never had any parasite problems whatsoever. I'd like to think it was because of the super long QT periods, or the UV doing it's job, or only buying from stores and members that practice good methods themselves. The guy that did maintenance on my tank taught me one thing. If anythings questionable don't do it. So nothing risky ever went in my tanks.

I will say that I have bought from stores that have great fish some are wonderful sponsors some are not even sponsors, but every fish has still been the flip of a coin. I never disagree with long QT. Not everyone has this option though. Should they leave the hobby? I went 4 years with no issues. Then one day I bought a fish from a sponsor dosent mater who, they QT and treat there fish, and that was 500.00 down the tube to learn how to deal with it. NOW I know how to deal with it. Once a fish has been at a members house that takes care of them its all:up:. Those are the best fish to buy! I spent way to much to learn this lesson. Its a sensitive situation. Johnr knows ohh so well what I went through.

Assault
07-10-2010, 10:31 PM
I will say that I have bought from stores that have great fish some are wonderful sponsors some are not even sponsors, but every fish has still been the flip of a coin. I never disagree with long QT. Not everyone has this option though. Should they leave the hobby? I went 4 years with no issues. Then one day I bought a fish from a sponsor dosent mater who, they QT and treat there fish, and that was 500.00 down the tube to learn how to deal with it. NOW I know how to deal with it. Once a fish has been at a members house that takes care of them its all:up:. Those are the best fish to buy! I spent way to much to learn this lesson. Its a sensitive situation. Johnr knows ohh so well what I went through.

I agree over 80% of my fish, came from someone's tank I trusted.

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 10:34 PM
If anythings questionable don't do it. So nothing risky ever went in my tanks.

I agree with him 110% on that. See I had to learn this the hard way. You are right.

:up:

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 10:46 PM
Not only fish but I feel the same way about corals. Members corals have always done better than store bought IMO.

Mike...are you going to the BBQ? Wondering if you could bring me some vitamin C please?

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 10:53 PM
Not only fish but I feel the same way about corals. Members corals have always done better than store bought IMO.

Mike...are you going to the BBQ? Wondering if you could bring me some vitamin C please?

I dont think we will make it. I could meet you at ATA if need be! You need to see my tank though!!!!LMK

Assault
07-10-2010, 10:54 PM
this isn't an option for most, but I always get someone to hold my livestock in QT, while my builds getting done, so by the time my tank cycles, I know the eating habits, health, and strength of the livestock, anything I'm not sure about, I sell or trade to someone who wants it. I may pay out a lil extra, but it's well worth it not to have problems in my tank.

coolsurf
07-10-2010, 10:58 PM
I dont think we will make it. I could meet you at ATA if need be! You need to see my tank though!!!!LMK

I'll get in touch with you and meet at your house. I really do want to see the tank!

Sorry about threadjacking.

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 11:00 PM
this isn't an option for most, but I always get someone to hold my livestock in QT, while my builds getting done, so by the time my tank cycles, I know the eating habits, health, and strength of the livestock, anything I'm not sure about, I sell or trade to someone who wants it. I may pay out a lil extra, but it's well worth it not to have problems in my tank.

That is a great situation. :up: I have a member that offers me a QT now that is always there and empty often! This I hope will be an option when my build is done for I have a couple of fish in mind that I will Qt in this manner due to them being wild caught fish.

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:01 PM
to mike, assault, shrimpy brains, coolsurf, and all the others who gave their input thank you so much
all of your post were real everyday experiences that you shared

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:12 PM
Ok, I done with your nonsense. Youve read 30-60 articles on marine disease, but dont know how to treat the most common, prolific, and most commonly treated disease?! And, then just flat out ask, what should I buy, and where? Good luck dude. I foresee failure. just my opinion.

first of all you didnt have to post anything and second no one like a smart a--
i know several ways to treat ich. i just wanted others opinions on the subject
if you dont like what i post then dont open anymore with my name on it
thanks for your .02 but i have plenty of money now so dont bother replying to my post anymore

yours truely IVEgotCRABS AKA not your friend:smashfreakB:

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 11:18 PM
first of all you didnt have to post anything and second no one like a smart a--
i know several ways to treat ich. i just wanted others opinions on the subject
if you dont like what i post then dont open anymore with my name on it
thanks for your .02 but i have plenty of money now so dont bother replying to my post anymore

yours truely IVEgotCRABS AKA not your friend:smashfreakB:
I don't think i would of posted that..... Panda had a point , and is not a smart ***, trust me he never comes to the smart *** meetings, and he is one of the most highly respected people in this hobby. I bow down to his tanks and his greatness.......we are all young grasshoppers in this hobby compared to him.

johnr2604
07-10-2010, 11:18 PM
LOL, I can remember when Mike was going through his battle. I think the best thing to remember is not to panic. I can't count the times that I have seen a hobbyist including myself resort to measures that were probably not necessary only to stress the fish even more resulting in death. Just because a fish gets a spot on a pectorial fin isn't necessarily call to drop your salinity or treat with meds. Like stated above a lot of times with proper nutrition the fish can easily fight it off themselves.

Also like stated above QT is the best safeguard. I also realize that QT may or may not be available or feasible for some people. It all comes down to educating yourself on how to deal with issues when they arise, because its not if they will happen its when they will happen.

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 11:29 PM
LOL, I can remember when Mike was going through his battle. I think the best thing to remember is not to panic. I can't count the times that I have seen a hobbyist including myself resort to measures that were probably not necessary only to stress the fish even more resulting in death. Just because a fish gets a spot on a pectorial fin isn't necessarily call to drop your salinity or treat with meds. Like stated above a lot of times with proper nutrition the fish can easily fight it off themselves.

Also like stated above QT is the best safeguard. I also realize that QT may or may not be available or feasible for some people. It all comes down to educating yourself on how to deal with issues when they arise, because its not if they will happen its when they will happen.

THE END Thank you John, well put!!!
:djsmilie:

Lets have a drink!

Assault
07-10-2010, 11:36 PM
first of all you didnt have to post anything and second no one like a smart a--
i know several ways to treat ich. i just wanted others opinions on the subject
if you dont like what i post then dont open anymore with my name on it
thanks for your .02 but i have plenty of money now so dont bother replying to my post anymore

yours truely IVEgotCRABS AKA not your friend:smashfreakB:

I know we don't allow respected members to be talked to in such a way on these forums? This is totally uncalled for. Why would you insult a member who is trying to help you? Some one who knows, not only about Ich, but about inexperienced reefers about to make big mistakes. You don't have to agree, but it is a must that you stay civil on these forums. I think you should apologize, that was pretty rude.

Ralph ATL
07-10-2010, 11:39 PM
I dnt know about you, but in my humble opine, the op is coming across rude, and demeaning, with unrealistic expectations. This will only cause major conflicts within our community.

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 11:39 PM
I know we don't allow respected members to be talked to in such a way on these forums? This is totally uncalled for. Why would you insult a member who is trying to help you? Some one who knows, not only about Ich, but about inexperienced reefers about to make big mistakes. You don't have to agree, but it is a must that you stay civil on these forums. I think you should apologize, that was pretty rude.
:up::yay::thumbs::yes:

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:43 PM
I don't think i would of posted that..... Panda had a point , and is not a smart ***, trust me he never comes to the smart *** meetings, and he is one of the most highly respected people in this hobby. I bow down to his tanks and his greatness.......we are all young grasshoppers in this hobby compared to him.

if he,she had read the post you would know that i was not asking for help simply just wanted to hear some of the members exp with this parasite
all panda did was try to make look dumb and by acting that way he did exactly the opposite
YOU might think he is the reef god, I think he is a SMART A--

DrNecropolis
07-10-2010, 11:44 PM
Hmmmm

Jeremy was just trying to help you.. He (like I) have little patience for trying to help someone that is going to be rude.. He was offering you his side of it.. Reading 30-60 articles or even 900 of them in no way reflects the ability to solve said problem.. I've watched almost every episode of Fear Factor but don't think I can choke down the stuff they eat on there..



The best luck I have had with Ich was to take a deep breath and walk away from it to let the panic go away.. Then feed high quality food, keep the stress level down as best I can and feed,feed, feed.. Its worked very well for me thus far (12+ years)

myVWrock
07-10-2010, 11:46 PM
You know you could of just used the search toolbar thingy, And read some threads on ich.....just my .02

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:47 PM
thats the stuff i was wanting in the post
he is the one that came across seemingly rude to me

mikesommers
07-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Well this thread just went :Flush: We have to respect each other.

DrNecropolis
07-10-2010, 11:50 PM
I've known him for quite some time.. He wasn't being rude.. He was honestly wanting you to step back and take a hard look..

When I would train people to survey, if they justed wanted to know "how" instead of "why" they didn't last very long.. Esp not with me..

Understanding why something works the way it works is step 1 in understanding soooo much more than the initial question..

IVEgotCRABS
07-10-2010, 11:50 PM
Ok, I done with your nonsense. Youve read 30-60 articles on marine disease, but dont know how to treat the most common, prolific, and most commonly treated disease?! And, then just flat out ask, what should I buy, and where? Good luck dude. I foresee failure. just my opinion.

Ok, I done with your nonsense. I foresee failure, come on all i asked for was how you guys dealt with ich personally
that seems to come across a little rude to me

DrNecropolis
07-10-2010, 11:54 PM
After your reply to his 1st post.. I don't think so..if ya do, PM him and talk it out there..



Anywho.. Let's get back to stories of ich, what works and what doesn't..

I've never had luck or really known anyone that has with "bottle cures".. Like Barry posted earlier, a lot of it is the fact that it drops off the host after X amount of time back to the sand to repopulate.. UV is effective if at the proper amount with the proper flow.. But then again, only for the ones that pass through the UV itself.. It is 100% useless against the ones that never make it into the unit..

Ralph ATL
07-11-2010, 12:01 AM
Well, you were! So understand and accept it, and apologize. Or don't post here anymore. Don't be rude.

DrNecropolis
07-11-2010, 12:02 AM
Jeez.. Sorry Ralph.. I'll go away then..

myVWrock
07-11-2010, 12:10 AM
:lol2:Jeez.. Sorry Ralph.. I'll go away then..

IVEgotCRABS
07-11-2010, 12:11 AM
like i said you dont have to post in this thread if you are going to be a jerk
ne way i know most of the meds out there dont work but some do
i only use kick ich to get the parasite off the fish to get the fish healthy again
so its immune system will be stronger. if the fish is not stressed and is eating he will have a better chance with other treatments

myVWrock
07-11-2010, 12:13 AM
like i said you dont have to post in this thread if you are going to be a jerk
ne way i know most of the meds out there dont work but some do
i only use kick ich to get the parasite off the fish to get the fish healthy again
so its immune system will be stronger. if the fish is not stressed and is eating he will have a better chance with other treatments


sounds like you have not listened to your own thread....

IVEgotCRABS
07-11-2010, 12:20 AM
sounds like you have not listened to your own thread....

my thead if you know how to read states that i wanted...........
you know what i give up . this started out with me trying to hear how other ARC members dealt with ich to see if i could improve my method
but it turned into a thread that almost completely ignored my original question
thanks alot to the people who totally ruined this

what ever i give up on this

Assault
07-11-2010, 12:59 AM
my thead if you know how to read states that i wanted...........
you know what i give up . this started out with me trying to hear how other ARC members dealt with ich to see if i could improve my method
but it turned into a thread that almost completely ignored my original question
thanks alot to the people who totally ruined this

what ever i give up on this

Just because you make a thread you don't have the right to control how others respond, he did not ignore your original question, he just responded about where he thought that kinda attitude towards reefing lead, to failure....you don't have to agree with his way of thinking, but he has the right to express it, just as you have the right to express yours. When you were unwilling to listen to his advice, which was pretty sound by the way, he told what he felt the outcome would be. you then insulted him personally, he said nothing about you personally, just your course of action. For that, you really should apologize.

grouper therapy
07-11-2010, 9:09 AM
:argue::argue::argue::grouphug::grouphug:
To the OP. Regarding the posting on the site by some of the members.Jmaneypanda,.Mysterybox, MYSELF and some I am sure I am missing have a very direct way of expressing our thoughts and opinion from time to time. This at times may seem pretty forward and some find offensive but as you will see with further readings of our post and meeting us in person you will find we are not total jerks just straight shooters so to speak. The smart --- part sadly is true. Please hang around and enjoy.
Ok now that we got that out of the way. My experience has been to practice QT procedures for both fish and corals prior to introduction into the display . If you have the resources to QT your corals in a host free system your chances are better than usual in regards to not introducing the parasite

bratliff
07-11-2010, 9:21 AM
I've had two ich outbreaks since I got into this hobby. Both relatively minor and dealt with fairly easily. I turn down the room lights and reduce the photoperiod on my tank and overfeed. I do have a hospital tank set up and am willing to treat it if it becomes worse, but, in both of my cases all signs of ich disappeared within just a couple of days.

I've also read where keep planktonic feeders and cleaner fish/shrimp can help keep ich in check so that's less likely to overpower a reef system. It doesn't rid the system of ich just keeps the population down to where the fish can manage, similar to how it's managed in nature.

I know I've got ich in my system but I'm not prepared to go to the extremes to get rid of the parasite because from what I've read, both here on the boards, other boards and off line, the only way IMO to be sure your tank never gets this is to run an empty box of water.

This is all just my opinion based on reading and experience. I have NOT done any scientific studies and do not have any references so don't ask. :D

Ralph ATL
07-11-2010, 11:40 AM
Jeez.. Sorry Ralph.. I'll go away then..



Awesome, lol!