If only I were prepared to raise babies....but I think one of the trio of cardinals is carrying eggs. Yesterday I noticed the 2 larger cardinals picking on and chasing the 3rd wheel guy. Then today I noticed they were hanging out near the frogspawn and seemed like they were hiding. Normally they're out and about and go after food like crazy...not tonight.

And the biggest cardinal is open mouth breathing with the gills bulging out. Seems perfectly calm though. I cannot catch a glimpse in his mouth so I have not visually verified this, but there is definitely something between these two :)

Congrats! It looks like you might be right.

Cool! Maybe someone that has a system running could pick them up and raise them for you.

I didn't expect them to be breeding so soon. They were babies when I got them around June I believe. And I would have thought I would have seen some kind of courtship.
As long as I were positive they would be ok, I wouldn't mind letting someone try to raise them. I just assume they'd have to take my male till he released the eggs :(

Like Tina (Lady Baboon) said, Congrats!
We are set up and would be happy to rear these babies, just say the word!
The more captive bred that are out there, means fewer that are taken from those remaining in the wild.
John

Cool! Are there enough captive-bred fish to tell if genetic traits can cause problems down the line like in some pure-bred dog species?

Interesting question!
The Bangaii genome is fairly closed. Very small population and fairly inbred. That means that the genetics was fairly closed before man ever started to harvest them. That also means that it should be a great many generations before any genetic drift and bad effects are ever seen. We are talking about several hundred generations. By that time, there should be enough bred in captivity to mix it up again.

Like Tina (Lady Baboon) said, Congrats!
We are set up and would be happy to rear these babies, just say the word!
The more captive bred that are out there, means fewer that are taken from those remaining in the wild.
John

i appreciate the offer! Do you think he'll carry all the way seeing as how these are DEFINITELY his first batch? I'd be more than happy to give him for a bit tomorrow if I knew there was a good chance they'd make it. I have not yet seen the eggs yet, but I can let you know as soon as I do. I can't remember their exact birthday, but I believe they were either Feb or March babies. They grow so quickly!
I talked to my boyfriend just now and he was like oh, I forgot to tell you they were doing weird dances while you were out of town. haha thanks! I got back last saturday, but besides cleaning I haven't had much time to sit down and look till today. So it's quite possible he's been holding for a week now.

Interesting question!
The Bangaii genome is fairly closed. Very small population and fairly inbred. That means that the genetics was fairly closed before man ever started to harvest them. That also means that it should be a great many generations before any genetic drift and bad effects are ever seen. We are talking about several hundred generations. By that time, there should be enough bred in captivity to mix it up again.


Cool. I guess the ornamental fish trade is not quite as large as the pure-bred dog industry (yes industry) and I'd like to think we're a bit more conscientious.

So in nature is it common for offspring to breed with other offspring from the same parent? I guess that was the main thing, what are the possible negative effects of continued inbreeding in fish? I mean, we're kind of removing the "natural" out of natural selection and pretty much just sticking 2 fish in a tank in hopes they pair up, where they might not have in nature. I'm not necessarily against it as selective inbreeding can give us things like picasso, snowflake, and platinum percs, but more wondering about the future it offers.

I asked bob that same question since these 3 of mine are all siblings, whether from the same "litter" or the next. But same parents. He said that it wouldn't make too much of a difference because of what John just said.

As far as it being common, aren't banggai's only from one area in Thailand or something? I would assume that they don't migrate or travel far, and since they were so over fished for the aquarium trade, I would definitely think that siblings, etc are breeding with each other.

Sweet!!! John and Tina raised the last batch that mine had as well. The good news is that the ones you have are atleast from two different lines of parents. So, there is a bit of diversity in the gene pool.

BZ

oh ok, I assumed they were siblings!

And do you think I should rehome the third? they don't pick on him/her all the time, just on occasion. But it is smaller than the pair which seems odd.

Kelsey, I've got a fishless 24g!

au01st
There is a great deal more science that goes into breeding marine ornamentals than goes into dog rearing. But ultimately, it really is the luck of the draw. And that is the same on a reef. Broadcast spawners are much less likely to ever see their siblings again compared to mouth breeders. These fish release their young and they do not ever go far from home. So, inbreeding is sort of planned for in their genome. Other fish not so much.

There is the thought that captive bred is better than wild caught because it does not further impact the reefs. But, that will not go very far if we do not apply the science of breeding to marine ornamentals. Sort of like inbreeding a dumb dog that looks real good. But we are just starting out in this game. Really any success is good.
John

My experience has been that once two fish pair up it's only a matter of time before the odd man out is really "out". That's why I gave away the third one in my last trio last weekend. In a large system, being well fed, the smaller one probably would be ok, but in a smaller system they probably will not let the third one last very long. That has just been my experience, you may have different results. Now, I keep a pair in my 65, a trio in my 210m and a pair in my 25. All three pairs are spawning whivh is cool.
As for your's they may be siblings, but atleast both parents were from different stock. There is a chance that they are only cousins too, since I mixed all the juveniles together when I had both set of adults spawning. Hope that helps!


Bob

(Moved to Breeder's Corner)

My experience has been that once two fish pair up it's only a matter of time before the odd man out is really "out". That's why I gave away the third one in my last trio last weekend. In a large system, being well fed, the smaller one probably would be ok, but in a smaller system they probably will not let the third one last very long. That has just been my experience, you may have different results. Now, I keep a pair in my 65, a trio in my 210m and a pair in my 25. All three pairs are spawning whivh is cool.
As for your's they may be siblings, but atleast both parents were from different stock. There is a chance that they are only cousins too, since I mixed all the juveniles together when I had both set of adults spawning. Hope that helps!


Bob

Will you be breeding again soon? I have a mixed pair of B&W Occ and Reg Occ that are courting and the female looks gravid because her belly is getting pretty big. Ill let them settle for a little while but plan to try to get them to spawn on a tile if possible. If not Ill try to see if I can find a time to make it out to Johns place next time they spawn.

I'm still out of the game... I'm going to try and catch some of the Bangaii babies and pass them off to John and Tina as well.
BZ

Well au01st, maybe if I can ever make a meeting again I'll bring my 3rd to you for that other tank :) I know he'd have a good home.