Shadow's 899.65 gallon build thread [Archive]

shadow

11-05-2009, 8:13 AM

Yes, the sump has to go outside.

I have an room I could use that is 3 to 5 feet above the tank level. If I place the sump in this area I would have to pump water up from the DT tank, and gravity would return water to the DT, in essence making the DT like a sump. I really would like to make that work. Most of the kinks in this scenario I worked out. My biggest concern is to do all the work to install this solution and them have micro bubbles in the DT. Folks have enough flood, micro bubbles and other issues doing it the simple way. So, I have decided to put the sump outside adjacent to the display room. Insulate it and the pipes to it. I am open to creative ideas on the other option.

Also, I'm leaning to a muted silver powder coat on the stand. White is my second choice.

ricksconnected

11-05-2009, 8:42 AM

muted silver? dont know that color. i do like that powder coat idea. where in the world did you find somebody with a oven big enough to do that stand lol? blk might be good too. interested in seeing what muted silver looks like.

EnderG60

11-05-2009, 10:03 AM

Im pretty sure the I beam holding up half my house is smaller then the ones your using for that stand!

what are those w12-35?

shadow

11-05-2009, 10:49 AM

http://forum.caswellplating.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=464&cat=504

I like this silver. "muted" is not the right word. Satin, matte, I don't know, not good with the color thing.

I like the Psycho Lime

http://forum.caswellplating.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/493

May be a little over the top. Would be unique.

Jeff.mcphail

11-05-2009, 11:18 AM

Did you get an estimated weight on the tank? I hope you have access to a small crane!

Jeff.mcphail

11-05-2009, 11:30 AM

Wow! I just did the math on the 3/4 glass at 9.8lbs per square foot. Your looking at 1200+ lbs easy!

Miami Dolfan

11-05-2009, 11:34 AM

Steve, I'm gonna send you a Royal Palm tree and a hut so I can tell my kids that we're going to have a local beach to go swimming in.

EnderG60

11-05-2009, 11:45 AM

dont waste your money on powder coating. Just get rustolium or grill paint. It will get scratched no matter what, and cheap paint is easier to touch up and prevent rusting.

Hackman72

11-05-2009, 11:48 AM

Can I rent the tank once you have it set up? I'm going to be getting my advanced open water dive cert. soon.

shadow

11-08-2009, 11:22 AM

11-08-2009, 12:39 PM

Mockery

11-08-2009, 12:46 PM

Who is making the tank??

Hackman72

11-08-2009, 12:52 PM

Metro Iron Works did the steel fabrication. The owners name is Jim and he is a real stand up guy. I've done other business with him and fully recommend his company for any type of steel fabrication you may need. Jim's phone # is 770.786.9105

Stand went in for powder coating on Friday and the tank was shipped Friday (at least that's what I was told. I have not received a routing # from the carrier yet).

Tank is a little over 2000 lbs and the stand is 670. OMG

I'm in the concrete business and I'm concerned about your foundation. The pictures of the stand show 4 "legs" of I-beam steal as the contact points to the floor. Most slabs are poured at a 3000 psi rating at 4" depth per ASTM under perfect conditions. Reality is, that doesn't always happen. Looking at the pictures of the stand that you initially posted and the seeing the weights of the tank and stand empty, I'm not sure that a residential slab will support the weight. The contact points to the floor as I see it in the pictures will only be the width of the steel plus what ever length it is. Combined, you might get a total contact area of say 2sq inches per corner (just guessing here). On a calculator, the slab would exceed required strength. Are you dispersing the weight at all, other than than the 4 contact points on each corner? I'd hated to see the slab crack and start causing the tank to leak and even worse, foundation problems.

salt reefer

11-08-2009, 1:07 PM

at least ad a 12 by 12 flat footing of 1/2 inch ti 1 inch steel and it should distribut the weight out some.with just the i-beam end touching the floor thats like a chisel. but with the flat pieces you wil serve two purposes weight distribution and it acts like a footing of a house wont let it dig into the concreat. that is going to be one awsome tank.

shadow

11-08-2009, 1:15 PM

Thanks Hackman. That's a good point. The weight is really adding up. The four contact points with the slab will have a metal plate 5"x8" = 40sq in contact with the slab at each leg. 4 legs = 160sqin contact. If the total package weights 10,000lbs, I'm at 62.5 lbs per square inch. Is my formula correct? If so, I should be ok.

To level the tank, I was going to have leveling screws attached to the plate. Jim, at MetroIron recommend I use "non-compacting" grout under each leg. Apparantly, the non-compacting grout is a standard practice in industrial construction projects to achieve perfect leveling with out the screws.

The slab is covered with crab orchard rock. I've been told setting the legs on the rock with be ok, but I'm considering removing the rock and setting the stand on directly on the slab.

salt reefer

11-08-2009, 1:24 PM

that ill be best as the rock can crush at the most unwanted time . sorry ex general contractor here . just trying to help.

grouper therapy

11-08-2009, 4:36 PM

if you are going to remove the rock then I would consider some grade beams in that slab. I'm no engineer but that is a lot of weight on four point loads!

Hackman72

11-08-2009, 11:25 PM

If the tank will be close to an exterior wall, you would probably have 2 legs on the foundation footing which usually extends about 18" to 24" to the inside on a monolithic slab. I would definitely pull the rock up and put the stand directly on the foundation. That rock probably isn't concidered structural and would crumble over time.

The formula you used would be technically correct. However, I wouldn't rely on that to decide if the foundation will hold it or not. The quickest and simplest way to check is with a swiss hammer. It measures concrete strength through vibration and density. It's a very simple and quick test and is done on site in a matter of seconds. I might be able to borrow one from work. I say might because they are a very expensive piece and they are real particular about even the QC guys having them checked out. If I can get one and you know exactly where the legs will contact the floor, I'd be happy to check it for you. The plates would certainly help with weight distibution but, the biggest problem here is the relatively few points to distibute the weight. If you had 6 or 8 or more legs, I wouldn't be to worried. I'd just hate to see something go wrong because I didn't bring up the possibility before hand. I'm not trying to throw a monkey wrench into it by any means.

shadow

11-09-2009, 6:18 AM

Hackman72

11-09-2009, 6:49 AM

Hackman, thanks for the generous offer. I really appreciate you jumping in with you expertise. I was just thinking, I watched this pour when the new addition was built. Now I remember, the pour is over the old garage floor. I should have 8" of concrete in this slab.

If you have 8" of concrete, then your foundation should be plenty able to support the tank. I just didn't want to see anything bad happen.

andregarcia_73

11-09-2009, 8:51 AM

When does that tank arrive?

shadow

11-10-2009, 2:30 PM

Pic of the powder coated stand. The tank has not been shipped yet

weaglereefer

11-10-2009, 2:47 PM

Looks great! Why didn't you go with the green?

James S.

11-11-2009, 7:28 PM

That stand is pimp!!!

Son of Adam

11-11-2009, 8:43 PM

Man thats a big mamahjammah!

jason sartain

11-11-2009, 8:59 PM

WOW,I bet thats stand cost more than my first two cars!!!!
Very nice,I can't wait too see this come together!
What live stock are you going to put in the tank?

andregarcia_73

11-11-2009, 10:27 PM

Good question! What are your livestock plans?

Miami Dolfan

11-12-2009, 11:21 AM

An Orca

Hackman72

11-17-2009, 11:18 PM

To level the tank, I was going to have leveling screws attached to the plate. Jim, at MetroIron recommend I use "non-compacting" grout under each leg. Apparantly, the non-compacting grout is a standard practice in industrial construction projects to achieve perfect leveling with out the screws.

I was talking with a QC guy today at work and remembered about the "non-compacting" grout. He'd never heard of it either. There's all kinds of grout and I won't say it doesn't exist but, I'm more inclined to think it's either compacting grout or non-shrinking grout. Compacting grout is the stuff that is used to raise a foundation like when a house settles. It's put in place under pressure so it wouldn't work in your application. Non-shrinking grout isn't too much a load bearing type as it is more cosmetic used to seal large cracks or holes and it has additives to keep it from shrinking during cure as most other portland based mixes will do. Can you get more info on it? Where would you get it at? Industrial construction usually involves a truck delivery, large quantities and a large expense.

Harleyguy

11-17-2009, 11:59 PM

http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20193&d=1257881427

That stand is pure sex... It's crazy what us geeks think is sexy...:blush:

shadow

11-18-2009, 7:10 AM

Here's the link to the grout product http://www.quikrete.com/ProductLines/NonShrinkPrecisionGrout.asp

Quickrete makes it. If installed properly, you get 12,000psi.

Just got the exact finished dimensions for the stand. 138.5 inch by 48 footprint. 36 high.

The tank has not shipped. Apparently, this is just business as usual with this particular tank vendor. Others on the board have had the same issue. Promise to ship, and failure to do so. Eventually the tank is shipped, just never on the dates promised. The vendor complains about the 'impatience" of Americans (Canadian Vendor). Bad way of doing business.

Well, the stand will make one hell of a table if I never get the tank.

Skriz

11-18-2009, 7:15 AM

Tell Mitch it's Canadian dishonesty that's the problem. He needs to learn to say that the tank still needs time to cure (silicone) & they'll get it out ASAP. That statement alone would make life easier for everyone!

Can't wait to see the rest of the build.

Son of Adam

11-18-2009, 9:01 AM

If you want an option other than the Quikcrete product.

http://www.rockite.com/aboutrockite.htm

11-18-2009, 9:13 AM

shadow

11-18-2009, 9:53 AM

He got so mad at me Monday. Told me to eat a cracker and have a Heineken. I told him to lay off the Moose Milk and ship my tank!

11-18-2009, 10:05 AM

LOL - he got mad at me too and hung up. I called back and talked to his helper, told him I don't do business like that and told him to forget it. He called me back, apologized and shipped my tank.

You can't say I didn't warn you prior to ordering. :)

Skriz

11-18-2009, 10:39 AM

12-01-2009, 8:12 PM

So what's the latest?

cr500_af

12-01-2009, 8:45 PM

Since the vendor has lied to you about shipping and called you impatient, I think you've earned the right to "out" him. :)

Jaandgc

12-01-2009, 9:36 PM

Just don't order a glass tank from Canada

Harleyguy

12-01-2009, 11:50 PM

Just don't order a glass tank from Canada

A agree if you’re not patient and like to be lied to... I've been through this twice... I got the second tank after lots of being lied too... The one good thing about ordering a tank from Canada is the price, and the build quality... Crappy service, great price, and great quality = Canada tank builders.

shadow

12-02-2009, 6:48 AM

Dakota9

12-02-2009, 7:13 AM

It's always disconcerting when you have been aggressively lied to regarding something as simple as a ship date.

YES!!!!!!! I have to do it everyday as part of my job. Sometimes, it bothers the guys on the other end of the transaction as well.

Skriz

12-02-2009, 7:14 AM

Update: Tank is sitting on the dock at the trucking company in Atlanta. Can't wait to see if the quality is as good as promised. It's always disconcerting when you have been aggressively lied to regarding something as simple as a ship date.

That's Mitch's MO. He lacks certain male organs to simply tell the truth about cure times.

Can't wait to see the tank though.

Amberjack

12-02-2009, 8:55 AM

Can't wait to see the tank though.

Me Too !!:eek:

12-02-2009, 12:47 PM

Congrats on getting the tank to Atlanta, I know how hard that was.

shadow

12-23-2009, 2:12 PM

Ok, I've been a little busy. Here is my seasons greeting to the ARC from the whole family. Our Christmas TANK shoot

LegalReefer

12-23-2009, 6:53 PM

That is one monstrosity of a tank :eek: Love the stand! Merry Christmas to your family as well.

Amberjack

12-23-2009, 9:21 PM

Merry Christmas, guys!!

weaglereefer

12-23-2009, 9:34 PM

It looked bigger in the other pics.

J/K, at least you made everyone take their shoes off first. Looks great, can't wait to see it up and running.

shamanofsexy

01-04-2010, 1:42 PM

OMG

This thread intrigue me so much i had to become a member just to see the pics of it

looks immense.

What are you going to keep in it?

jmaneyapanda

01-04-2010, 2:17 PM

You have giant brass ones trusting something that tall and long as rimless!!!!

Keithb

01-04-2010, 2:30 PM

what a tank.

shamanofsexy

02-01-2010, 8:35 AM

Wonder how this is getting on

shadow

02-20-2010, 6:04 PM

Been awhile since my last update. This is my new sump for the 670. Its a 325 gallon cistern. I'm going to insulate it and bury it. More details soon

http://i901.photobucket.com/albums/ac215/warehouseaquarium/DSC_0039.jpg]

Amici

02-20-2010, 8:07 PM

What are you putting in that container? Is it just to add volume?

weaglereefer

02-20-2010, 8:14 PM

Careful, after you tear up the yard, your wife might kill you, and she'll have the peftect place to hide the body!

Seriously though, how is that gonna work as a sump? Will you be able to maintain it once it's burried? Siphon detrius and such?

justindville1987

02-20-2010, 8:36 PM

you much have a great shop to do all of this. great work!!!

shadow

02-21-2010, 10:35 AM

I did not want to put the sump directly under the Display Tank for aesthetic reasons and the only other area I could put the sump is 6 ft above the top of the DT. The only solution was to place my sump outside. Which, of course, creates a lot of other problems. The solution I settled on was to insulate and bury a holding tank to perform the basic function of a sump. That is to circulate a sufficient volume of water and buffer the effects of evaporation. To process my water, i.e. protein skimming, carbon, gfo, UV, Ozone, ect., I will set up a large refugium (240 g) in the room above the DT. Water will be pumped from the sump to the refugium 12 feet higher in a dedicated tank room, processed an then returned to the sump.

The sump its self will have a mechanical filter (probably a 5 gallon filter sock) and a mechanism to reduce micro bubbles (haven't settled on the final design).

Open to comments and ideas.

jnbrex

02-28-2010, 9:35 PM

You will need to be careful to insulate the outside sump very well, because in the summer it will cause the water to heat up, and in the winter it will cool down the water.

weaglereefer

02-28-2010, 9:44 PM

You will need to be careful to insulate the outside sump very well, because in the summer it will cause the water to heat up, and in the winter it will cool down the water.

Depends how deep it is. Temperatures are pretty stable after going just a few feet down in the dirt.

grouper therapy

02-28-2010, 10:31 PM

After the 5 feet level the ground temp. starts to stabilize. It will be somewhere between 65 and 70 degrees year round .

grouper therapy

02-28-2010, 10:43 PM

Wwhat type lighting and what type of temp control are you considering?

Skriz

03-01-2010, 8:39 PM

The only way this will "buffer the effects of evaporation" is if it maintains the temperature.

How are you going to implement the 5g filter sock? Remeber that this will need to be changed quite often (depending on the micron size), so make sure it's easily accessible. There are industrial HDPE products available that you could use to accomplish this..unless you have a better idea already.

shadow

05-20-2010, 3:18 PM

Update. Here are some pics of the burial and insulation of the sump. The material I used to insulate is a foam with a plastic liner. It's 2" thick and is typically used for insulation under radiant concrete slabs. It's an excellent insulating material. The material completely surrounds the sump sides, top, and bottom.

Skriz

05-20-2010, 5:36 PM

What's the purpose of the insulation? I would've thought you'd want as much heat transfered into the ground as possible, even though it's not burried very deep?

sollie7

05-20-2010, 6:13 PM

this will b e amaizng once its done

shadow

05-20-2010, 6:17 PM

Ground temp varies by as much as 20 degrees with seasonal changes. You need to be below 5 feet before you reach a constant of 67 degrees for Atlanta (see attached PDF) The sump is max 4ft in the ground.

My thought was maintain as constant a temp as possable. It is still sort a moot point, cause I have so much uninsulated glass in the room above the sump. No matter how I did it I still need heaters and a chiller.

RedEDGE2k1

05-20-2010, 6:31 PM

I don't understand the purpose of the partially buried cistern?? It's only going to trap detritus, be impossible to clean, run the risk of cracking with ground swell/movement, and add tremendously to your heating needs in the winter months (unless you plan to cover it with a shed of some sort). You also compromised your house footing/thickened slab by removing dirt underneath the footing and replacing it without compaction. That ring of insulation isn't serving much purpose (if any) either.

Not trying to be negative, I'm just not getting your intent and am very curious.

Dustin

Smallblock

05-20-2010, 6:34 PM

depends how deep it is. Temperatures are pretty stable after going just a few feet down in the dirt.

+1

Smallblock

05-20-2010, 6:38 PM

This is crazy lol but its probly gonna be amazing when its all done how much do u have invested in this so far if you dont mind me asking

Amici

05-20-2010, 6:49 PM

shadow

05-20-2010, 10:02 PM

llewella

05-20-2010, 10:08 PM

SOunds really cool! I can't wait to see the finished set up.

shadow

05-20-2010, 10:25 PM

The reason for moving the sump outside was two fold; aesthetic and lack of another place to put it. I did not want the traditional cabinet/sump below setup.

I wanted the tank to float above the floor. It you can call setting it up on 8in steel beams floating. I just wanted a special look. (if the sumps scares you, wait 'till I post the 670 gallon RIMLESS pic.) The easiest way to accomplish that was to bury the sump outside. Ok, so here one more pic that may calm your concerns.

Smoothie

05-20-2010, 10:57 PM

I love the way you think. Way to just go for it man!

llewella

05-20-2010, 11:26 PM

Wow looks great and really expensive. lol Waiting on tank pics!!

grouper therapy

05-20-2010, 11:50 PM

RedEDGE2k1

05-20-2010, 11:58 PM

You really have to see how this is set up to understand what a great system this is. The sump will not break. It is designed as a septic cistern. It will be in the ground doing its job years after the house has fallen down. As far as the ditrus issue. cistern water is being turned 30 times an hour and is running through a special filter bag set up that cleans the water. Temp. change will not be an issue because the whole sump is insulated and enclosed (pics latter). It really is a cool set up.

House foundation is in no way compromised. This part of the house is on a slab, so its not a big issue anyway. There will be close to 300 gallons of water in it at all times at a little over 8lbs a gallon, so it ain't gonna move.

If I do need to clean, its big enough I can get in it, (pics).

I'm not at all trying to spar with you, just lending my knowledge especially since you're still in the planning stages for the most part. I think where I got confused is your reference to the cistern as a "sump," rather than simply an "expansion tank" for your system. I understand it will add 300+ gallons of water to your overall system, and that in itself is beneficial. However...

You designed the cistern plumbing such that water enters through the top and leaves through the top. So, you essentially added a sediment retention pond to your system. No matter how much water volume you push through the cistern, heavier-than-water particles are going to fall to the bottom of the cistern where they will stay until you manually suck out. And I mean "suck" literally, since you won't be able to siphon them out, since the bottom of the tank is below grade and you won't be able to create a siphon to anything.

The cistern will be very heavy, you are right, but that will only help the cistern move (sink), not prevent it. I can't tell from your pictures, but I'm assuming you didn't compact the dirt below the cistern to a 95%+ density as would be needed to prevent the weight of the cistern from pushing it farther into the ground (over time). Your plumbing to the cistern appears to be all hard connections (PVC) and these will break when the cistern settles. Also, since you encased the top of the cistern in concrete, when the settling occurs the 2,900+ pounds of water in the cistern will only be supported by the top several inches of the cistern housing (the concrete will act like a washer, holding the cistern flush with the grade while the lower portion of the cistern is unsupported). This is cause the cistern to crack.

You did compromise your house foundation in your excavation. Not tremendously, meaning your house isn't going to fall down tomorrow (or any other time) but you did create a weak spot directly below the thickened slab in this area. Your house slab cannot resist any more movement than the dirt below it can. Since this dirt is no longer compacted to a required density, it will settle immediately when the next rain comes in and it gets wet, and a little more with each subsequent rain. Afterward, you'll be left with an air gap between your house slab and the subgrade, and this unsupported load will cause a crack to form in your house foundation (in this particular area). Any future overall settlement of your house will be amplified at this location, causing this area of your house to settle more than the surrounding areas of your house -- leading to additional cracks elsewhere.

Are you going to somehow insulate your outdoor skimmer? If not, your collection cup is going to freeze in the winter and bust the acrylic.

Again, not trying to be confrontational, just throwing this all out there since I think it is more important that you're letting on. I love an engineering mind, don't get me wrong, but this seems like an awful lot to experiment with.

Dustin

Mockery

05-20-2010, 11:58 PM

Really nice job!!!!! I was wandering what the concern was over the cistern leaking. That thing will be there long after you tank is gone. Great idea to increase your volume without compromising the display tank area or your yard. Should be easy to do massive water changes as well, pump out and dry vac! I like your thinking outside the box. I am curious to see if your tank temp is affected much not that it can't be stabilized with heaters or chillers. Do you have plans for the skimmer (housing etc.)?

I was wondering the same thing.

This will be an amazing tank when finnished. Can't wait to see more progress.

grouper therapy

05-21-2010, 12:37 AM

Dustin if the cistern is sitting on grade dirt and not fill would it not meet the same compaction test as the footings or the monolithic slab?

RedEDGE2k1

05-21-2010, 12:59 AM

Dustin if the cistern is sitting on grade dirt and not fill would it not meet the same compaction test as the footings or the monolithic slab?

I'm not understanding your question, as "grade dirt" and "fill" can be the same thing. All that matters is the material (dirt in this case) is compacted to ~95% density before it's expected to support a load without settling/sinking/moving/whatever else. Obviously 100% density is desired, but you reach a point of diminishing return pretty quickly past 95% for structural applications.

When the house was built, the dirt underneath the slab was compacted (by a vibrating tamper, sheeps foot roller, or some other mechanical means) before the slab was poured. If after the slab is poured & cured, someone goes along the edge of the slab and shovels out some dirt, then shovels it back in, this area of dirt underneath the slab is no longer compacted and therefore can no longer act as a structural support for the slab (house) load sitting on top of it, at least in this one particular area. The non-compacted dirt will settle, the slab will sag, and the slab will crack. Then the masonry sitting on top of the slab will crack. Or, if it's a stick frame house, the drywall screwed to the studs will crack, and the paint will crack, and you'll be looking at it everyday. When it comes time to sell the house, the house inspector will follow this aesthetic crack all the way to the structural crack, and the value of the house drops.

Dustin

shadow

05-21-2010, 6:22 AM

Valid concerns, Dustin. The tank sits on undisturbed earth. The tank is mostly spherical, but he bottom is reinforced and flat. Actually, it has a step in it to make sure the tank never goes empty (if you place your pump feeds on the step up.) True dirt that fills the wall around the tank needs to be compacted. The problem was how do you compact beneath a sphere in a narrow hole. I compacted best I could in a spherical shape before I drop the thing in. If filled in around it with dry sand.

The slab is a double pour over a garage slab that was already there since 1975. So, I basically, have 8 inches of reinforced concrete in the slab. Also the structure built on the slab is one story, flat roof. Very little weight.

Detritus. Again, my situation is unique, I have about a 10 foot drop between the where the cistern is located and the level position of the cistern. I can run a water hose and siphon as easy as if it was sitting on the floor.

Good discussion , thanks. I really appreciate the critique. There is a lot to setting something like this up. Very easy to miss a step.

grouper therapy

05-21-2010, 9:48 AM

I'm not understanding your question, as "grade dirt" and "fill" can be the same thing. All that matters is the material (dirt in this case) is compacted to ~95% density before it's expected to support a load without settling/sinking/moving/whatever else. Obviously 100% density is desired, but you reach a point of diminishing return pretty quickly past 95% for structural applications.

When the house was built, the dirt underneath the slab was compacted (by a vibrating tamper, sheeps foot roller, or some other mechanical means) before the slab was poured. If after the slab is poured & cured, someone goes along the edge of the slab and shovels out some dirt, then shovels it back in, this area of dirt underneath the slab is no longer compacted and therefore can no longer act as a structural support for the slab (house) load sitting on top of it, at least in this one particular area. The non-compacted dirt will settle, the slab will sag, and the slab will crack. Then the masonry sitting on top of the slab will crack. Or, if it's a stick frame house, the drywall screwed to the studs will crack, and the paint will crack, and you'll be looking at it everyday. When it comes time to sell the house, the house inspector will follow this aesthetic crack all the way to the structural crack, and the value of the house drops.

Dustin

Those are the terms I have used for 30+ years in regards to undisturbed soil vs. soil that was fill or disturbed if you will, as in back fill. A lot of footings and slabs I have dug and poured needed no compaction by any device since mother nature had already done the job, most of the slabs cut in on undisturbed soil met the compaction test. I only assumed it did in this case as you assumed it did not. It appeared to me from the pics that this was the backside of the house that had been cut in the hill and the fall(natural grade)of the lot was toward the front, judging by the retaining walls pictured.

shadow

05-21-2010, 4:36 PM

Fish Scales2

05-21-2010, 5:03 PM

Just out of curiosity, why did you not pour a footer beneath the cistern. Are you really not concerned about settleing? Loving the build thread btw.

shadow

05-21-2010, 5:41 PM

FishScales, the cistern sits on undisturbed earth and it's weight is equally distributed across the lower half of the sphere. While the cistern w/water weights over a ton the distributed weigh across the surface area of the cisterns southern hemisphere is on a fraction of a pound per square in. It, for all practical purposes "floats" on the dirt. The bigger concern, is not having enough water in the cistern to hold the cistern down if you have ground water. Pools in Florida are a great example. If you let you pool go dry, it pops up out of the dirt, like a cork.

Fish Scales2

05-21-2010, 6:15 PM

Well as long as your cistern is 100% flat that is. What is the circumfrence of the cistern? I had figured it to be around 36"-40" and if that is so you are way above "a fraction of a pound per sq. in."
The psi at the bottom I bet is well over 75psi, sides maybe fraction of an inch. I know you guys have had the advice of structural engineer but if he is telling you that you have a fraction of lb per in. something is wrong.

You are using the same cistern you posted in feb arent you. I thought it was round, like a big ball.

shadow

05-21-2010, 9:54 PM

Ok, I did the math. The diameter of the sphere is 54" . The surface area is 9160.884 sq. inches. 1/2 that (the southern hemisphere) = 4580.44 sq. in.

Water is 8.35 lbs per gallon. 300 gallon = 2505 lbs of water. Divided into the sq inches. Its 1.82 pounds per square inch.

shadow

05-21-2010, 10:17 PM

How 'bout some more pics.

The crated tank weighed in close to 2400 lbs. The stand was around 700lbs. To move the tank I built a huge dolly out of 10 foot 2x8's with the biggest casters I could find at HD. Getting the tank on the dolly was difficult, we inched the tank off the trailer directly onto the dolly by attaching a winch to the end of the trailer and the opposite end of the tank and winching it off.

Once of the trailer, we connected the winch to the truck and slowly winched the tank over plywood to the back of the house where we uncrated it.

I looked at a lot of options to move this tank. The block and tackle method proved to be the best solution.

sollie7

05-21-2010, 10:19 PM

that thing is huge!

Mockery

05-21-2010, 10:22 PM

Just wondering what size is the other tank in the middle photo?

shadow

05-21-2010, 10:29 PM

I just noticed the tank in the fore ground. Thats funny, it was my first serious tank. It is a 125.

sollie7

05-21-2010, 10:30 PM

I just noticed the tank in the fore ground. Thats funny, it was my first serious tank. It is a 125.
haha looks like a 10 gal compared to the 900

sollie7

05-21-2010, 10:32 PM

oh yeah jus curious how are you going to get the tank on the stand?

Mockery

05-21-2010, 10:41 PM

I just noticed the tank in the fore ground. Thats funny, it was my first serious tank. It is a 125.

WOW that really puts things in perspective.

Assault

05-24-2010, 2:27 AM

this build is worse that a soap opera, literally can't wait to see what happens next. This is by far the most interesting build i've ever saw.

texhorns98

05-24-2010, 9:46 AM

this build is worse that a soap opera, literally can't wait to see what happens next. This is by far the most interesting build i've ever saw.

Judging by the foliage on the trees, those pics are old. Let's see where you are TODAY! :thumbs:

shadow

05-24-2010, 12:25 PM

Very asute observation texhorns98. I'm chill'n in the sump.

blu_devl_06

05-24-2010, 12:43 PM

That's too funny!!!:lol2:

RedEDGE2k1

05-24-2010, 12:43 PM

Very asute observation texhorns98. I'm chill'n in the sump.

looks like the cover of a Reefers Gone Wild video

texhorns98

05-24-2010, 1:01 PM

I take it you don't have saltwater running in there just yet? :)

Fish Scales2

05-24-2010, 1:05 PM

Now thats funny.:D

Smoothie

05-24-2010, 1:34 PM

That's one way to get the cycle started ya filthy animal

Assault

05-25-2010, 3:42 AM

somebody give that guy SUMP-thin to do lol

shamanofsexy

05-25-2010, 5:35 AM

I cant wait to see this working.

Any thoughts on what your going to put in it yet.

shadow

05-25-2010, 8:34 AM

I don't know if I will do this, but one of the things I've thought about with this tank is to fill it with Aqua-cultured Animals. Our hobby is so scrutinized from a "PC" perspective, it would be nice to showcase the fact that a lot of the life we put in our tanks today is farm raised. Many people shy away from the hobby and criticize what we do because they believe it harms the marine ecosystem.

While some of the negative press is justified, I think overall the hobby increases awareness of how precious the marine resources are and contributes to advances that helps protect it.

I believe, I could make a pretty nice presentation in the tank with just animals that have been cultivated in captivity. It might be a stretch. I would be very interested in the clubs thoughts.

Fish Scales2

05-25-2010, 9:41 AM

I don't know if I will do this, but one of the things I've thought about with this tank is to fill it with Aqua-cultured Animals. Our hobby is so scrutinized from a "PC" perspective, it would be nice to showcase the fact that a lot of the life we put in our tanks today is farm raised.
While some of the negative press is justified, I think overall the hobby increases awareness of how precious the marine resources are and contributes to advances that helps protect it.

I believe, I could make a pretty nice presentation in the tank with just animals that have been cultivated in captivity. It might be a stretch. I would be very interested in the clubs thoughts.

Not a stretch at all IMO. Many blennies, gobies, clowns, cardnials, a couple of tangs and even a couple of angels have been bred or hatched in captivity. Even better you could get mated pairs. You have come a long ways since the days of the Nano Cracker. lol:thumbs:

texhorns98

05-25-2010, 9:47 AM

+1000 on going all aquacultured/maricultured! That would be a great statement!

Smallblock

05-25-2010, 12:28 PM

somebody give that guy SUMP-thin to do lol

lol

Skriz

05-25-2010, 3:47 PM

shadow

05-25-2010, 5:35 PM

Lifting the tank on to the stand was quite a chore. This thing weighs close to a ton. In addition, the tank has to be recessed into the frame. In other words, once it it as the frame it has to be moved over and dropped into the frame.

I did this alone (no one could tolerate being around me I was so nervous). The tank is has a double 3/4 inch glass bottom on 2 sheets of 1/2in plywood. Beneath that was 1 inch of corrugated cardboard on top of two pallets. The tank was setting on the special homemade dolly.

I used two car jacks. I placed them on one end, jacked the tank up 4 inches. pushed a 4x4 post under the dolly and moved to the other end and did the same thing. repeat till the tank is level with the stand.

Once level, I strapped the tank with a nylon come along and cranked the tank over onto the frame.

Miami Dolfan

05-25-2010, 5:49 PM

WoW! :eek:

llewella

05-25-2010, 5:59 PM

Wow Scary! One question though. Is all the natural sunlight going to cause a problem with algae or heat, or will it actually benefit the tank?

Assault

05-25-2010, 6:12 PM

shadow

05-25-2010, 9:32 PM

Wow Scary! One question though. Is all the natural sunlight going to cause a problem with algae or heat, or will it actually benefit the tank?

I don't think it will be a problem. Direct sunlight sometimes will pose a problem with algae growth. Oddly enough, this room does not get any direct sunlight.

llewella

05-25-2010, 9:35 PM

I bet it'll look great though with all the light :) A good UV sterilizer probably wouldn't hurt either.

shadow

05-27-2010, 8:13 AM

The tank is off the pallets and on the stand.

The tank now needs to be recessed in the stand. I have to pick up the tank, remove the supports I have placed in the stand and lower it again.

shadow

05-28-2010, 7:40 AM

lowering the tank into place

shamanofsexy

05-28-2010, 6:36 PM

Looks amazing already.

Cant wait for the lighting and Aquascaping to start.

Rbredding

05-29-2010, 1:45 PM

that's crazy...

shadow

05-30-2010, 8:18 AM

I know how much you guys love pvc plumbing so here a pic or two.

The drains are 2" PVC, everything else is 1 1/2. What you seeing at the end of the frame is the two ocean motions and the associated plumbing.

I wanted a nice clean look, so I built a frosted glass case around the plumbing. I like the frosted glass, because it cleans up the look, but you can still see how complicated the plumbing is.

The middle pic shows the drain, return, and closed loop for the the ocean motions going through my wall to the sump. Originally, I was going to drill my floor so you would not see these. Instead, I choose the route in the pic, I'm glad I did.

texhorns98

05-30-2010, 9:09 AM

All that glue and I hardly see a drip of any primer! THAT'S impressive!

shadow

05-30-2010, 8:59 PM

All that glue and I hardly see a drip of any primer! THAT'S impressive!

I used an Oatey PVC cement that does not require primer on the drains. On the pressurized returns I cleaned, primed, cemented both ends, and 1/4 turned the pvc.

Gorilla Glue also has and excellent primer less PVC cement. You just can't get it locally.

johnr2604

05-30-2010, 10:52 PM

sollie7

05-30-2010, 11:13 PM

that is some complicated plumbing :)

Smoothie

05-30-2010, 11:15 PM

Clean!

Columbus Reef

05-30-2010, 11:32 PM

Beautiful! I've been following for a while. Without going back through all 154 messages, have you already posted a diagram of your plumbing design? If not, could you? (Drool, drool.)

shadow

06-01-2010, 8:22 AM

Beautiful! I've been following for a while. Without going back through all 154 messages, have you already posted a diagram of your plumbing design? If not, could you? (Drool, drool.)

Sorry, I do not have a diagram of the plumbing. I used "cut, glue, and curse" method of plumbing.

nimrod

06-03-2010, 3:52 PM

Awesome!

llewella

06-03-2010, 5:30 PM

OK put some water in there already!!!

shadow

06-03-2010, 8:27 PM

Ok. Water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shadow

06-03-2010, 8:30 PM

Better

weaglereefer

06-03-2010, 8:46 PM

:thumbs::yay::up:

texhorns98

06-03-2010, 11:36 PM

Question,

Why are all your CL returns facing the same direction? Is that something that gets changed or is their a purpose behind it?

WILLIAM1

06-03-2010, 11:48 PM

Wow what an amazing build cant wait to see it finished.

GAreefer

06-04-2010, 12:20 AM

Awesome!! Can't wait to see some rock in there!

shadow

06-04-2010, 6:44 AM

Question,

Why are all your CL returns facing the same direction? Is that something that gets changed or is their a purpose behind it?

The closed loop returns are not complete, but the idea here is to create a "rolling wave". That is to create motion in the tank starting at the overflow end and have it move through this body of water. I have not settled on exactly how I want to tune this, but I'm leaning to having a single open valve per Oceans Motion. Each row of CL returns are connected to an OM. The OM can have a rotor inside that allows 3,2, or 1 to fire at the same time. The fewwer that fire at once, the move velocity. Moving 600+ Gallons down the tank in a constant motion takes a lot of velocity.

It works pretty nicely now. The water is pushed from the overflow end, getting an extra push at each of the CL's, it hits the far end, turns upward and returns to the overflow, at the bottom it returns to the two 2" returns for the closed loop. Waste is removed efficiently, and the animals should have over a 10x exchange rate.