http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1641&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1172698993 (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=25015#post25015) Cappuccino Bay Aquarium is offering ARC members special PowerBuy prices on Crocea Clams (2.5"-3") for $19.99.
You must show valid membership and clams are first come first serverd. We've been told that there are over 30 clams available at this price.
Valid from now until March 13th.
Happy clamming!

Some examples of the types of croceas they have:

Dang, that was quick. Good job guys.

I will be leaving in alittle while to head over there and try to get some nice ones.

Thanks again for everyone's hard work to make this happen.

Big thanks to Alan and Tony for making this happen so quickly.

thanks guys!

Sweet... Good work Cameron... REP IT UP...


Big D

i just hope people dont go out and buy these and not have the proper requirements for them. Please note that these clams require a lot of light to live, grow, and keep its intense colors. MH and or T5 lighting is reccommended. They will use a lot of clacium in your tank so keeping calcium up around 400-480 is preferred. Please be smart about buying these guys.

Ditto....on what gltrix said.....be smart about buying these.

Well, I just got back from Cap Bay alittle while ago, with 2 new friends.

I don't have a camera here with me, so I can't take any pics.

They're not the best looking clams in the world, but obviously, for less than $20 they are more than adequate. They have a bunch there to choose from, but most of them look the same, so no need to rush over there to pick out the best ones.

No hassle or problems whatsoever with the discount.

I can't wait to see them in my tank.

The unicorn tang wouldn't let me see the clams very well. He was like a big dog, just wanting some attention. We would swim right over the clams and lay on them and stare at you. Very funny. He did look like he had Popeye or something though, maybe he ran into some rock or the wall.

Anyway, good stuff for a phenomenal price.

I agree with the above guys about having the proper tank set-up to support these clams. They are of the highest light demanding clams in the tridacna family, so don't go buying these just b/c they are a great buy.

Nothing less than T5 or MH in an established aquarium with dosing of CA and monitoring DKH and Mg.

Thanks again to Cameron, Alan and Tony for hooking this up for us. :yay:

Hrmm, I seriously need to find some space in the tank for a clam...

Wanna get rid of something????????

Does anyone know if a paypal reciept for a new member will work at CBA for this?

Zack, you can use your paypal receipt.

...and thanks goes out to CBA for giving is this great deal at a local store!!!
As I'm sure most will, why not check out other items CBA has to offer as well. Even picking up a single frag in addition to your clam will show CBA how much we appreciate their support!

And don't forget to post pics of your new additions!!!

I'll post my new additions this week-end. I got a couple around 5:30 yesterday. Most of them were blue/purple which I already have, but definitely looks spectacular. I snagged two of the 4 or so odd-clams-out that had gold coloring along with a more royal blue color. One had a nice banding with a royal blue down the middle, gold + royal ringing that, and a purplish fringe (like a cats eye pattern).

It's great of CBA to give us these clams at cost.

Does anyone know how long this special will run? I definitely am interested in a few clams. I just need to wait till the later this month when I move to the new house and set up the 30GAL cube.

It will end at close of business March 13th.

Does anyone know how long this special will run? I definitely am interested in a few clams. I just need to wait till the later this month when I move to the new house and set up the 30GAL cube.
If I had any more places to put clams, I'd hold some for you, but without a tear down and re-aquascaping, I'm out of room.

If I had any more places to put clams, I'd hold some for you, but without a tear down and re-aquascaping, I'm out of room.

George....appreciate the offer. I'll just wait till I get it all set up, then find a deal!

picked up one today, I'll snap some pics later. Thanks again everyone who set this up and a HUGE thanks to capp bay!!

Picked up two today myself and another flower pot since I had to go get food for the rest of the tank anyways. Thanks everyone for putting this together.

ok here are some quick shots, been in the tank for only 20 minutes and already lookin this great :) How sweet is the gold dust look. And how random is that super clean looking shell......ah yes coraline will be all over that in no time.

http://www.lkordel.com/public/crocea3.jpg

http://www.lkordel.com/public/crocea3-1.jpg

I'm pretty new to the clam scene and don't have much experience with them, but to me, those brownish spots almost look like the zooxanthellae coming through due to the protective coloration being worn away. If this is the case, it should be moved low in the tank so it can recover.

Just a thought though and I am a newb with clams, so I could be way off.

That's gold coloring. Some Crocea's, like Maximas, have gold coloring in the mantles. Many of the clams CBA has in this lot have some gold coloring. The two I got have a ton.

I don't know, but I assume it's because they're from deeper water than the ultra-bright ones.

actually the coloring is all relative to what grade clam it is...this guy was prolly just not good enough to make 1st grade. All the clams that we got this deal on were 2nd grade or low 1st grade. 1st grade meaning there is an extreme amount of coloration with blue, purple, gold, light blues and electric colors. 2nd grade is just a more basic coloration. Things you NEED to look at when buying clams, yes there are guidlines just like buying regular corals. First off, wave your hand over the clam and see if its responsive to the light change, a good healthy clam will close up very fast, if it doesnt its most like not in good health.....fortunately all at capp bay were very responsive. Second, make sure the mantle is coming out and not "pinched" looking or closed up. third and prolly most important, ask to see the underside of the clam and make sure there are no Pyramid Snails on the underside near the foot or on the shell, these snails eat clams and reproduce rapidly! Also while youre looking at the underside, make sure the foot isnt torn and there are no holes, the foot should look nice white and fleshy. If all those check out then you should have a nice specimen to add to your reef. And please remember to have high light for these guys, I cant stress this enough!

Good stuff.

I too picked up a clam to go with my maxi and it opened in the bag lololol along with a couple of blastos to go with my other blastos morphs..Thumbs up for CBA...Just a great deal all around..It seems to like cyclopese very well...lolol
Cheers
Dana
Thanks to ARC for this deal as well

ok here are some more pics, I wasnt expecting the clam to be fully opened just yet but this thing is looking amazing!!! And now I finally realize how large it is, this is compared to my smaller clam which is about 2.5-3" and of course a top down shot.

http://www.lkordel.com/public/clams.jpg

http://www.lkordel.com/public/clamsTop.jpg

Looking good glxtrx... Here's a shot last night of the 2 I picked up. Hopefully they'll be fully opened up tonight when I get home. I picked up one with some gold on it also. They're the ones on the left and right side of the rock, they dwarf my other 2 Croceas, I couldn't believe how big these guys were for the price. The pics a little blue, camera hasn't been the same since one of the kids dropped it :doh: ...


Pic


http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h46/244268/180%20Gal/Clams-1.jpg



Here's a shot of another newby I picked up at Marine Fish



http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h46/244268/180%20Gal/Neon.jpg




Big D

very nice Big D!!! yeah all's I have to say is I'm glad I have a small tank or I would have bought many more clams.

Big D if you ever frag that pink monti thing in the back, I want a slice.

Does anyone know if they still have a good selection? If so when were you there? I was going to run up there tonight.

if you think about it, any clam for 20 bux is a great deal....They have some that are a lil more colorfull than others, but you need to think, these are 2nd grade clams its not like youre going to get major color variations. I'ld say go and see what they have, if you dont leave with a clam, leave with a coral :)

I just picked one up, along with a blue linka. They still had 10-15 or so, all looked nice. I'll post some pictures tonight.

good deal, cant wait to them :)

I was there today, still had many to choose from. Pretty nice selection good sized most with good color. Would have bought but just picked one up about two weeks ago.

Capp Bay ROCKS!!!

Here's what I got yesterday!

Bought mine this morning, they have about 10 left.


HURRY HURRY!

been considering going back to get another, thankfully my tank is soooo packed right now.

thanks cba

well i don't want to start any arguments or anything, and i'm sure you guys that have clams know what you are talking about, but a buddy of mine was up there today and he said that the person he talked to said (and i may be mistaken because i'm medicated and can't remember much from today) maximas are the ones that NEED MH, but croceas and duressa (sp?) can live under pc's if they are at the top... what do you guys think of that?

I don't think that humans NEED three meals a day... but we sure get unhealthy if we only have one. You may be able to keep one alive for a period of time... but you're likely never to be "that guy" that has had the same clam for 10years.

...just my opinion.

I don't think that humans NEED three meals a day... but we sure get unhealthy if we only have one. You may be able to keep one alive for a period of time... but you're likely never to be "that guy" that has had the same clam for 10years.

...just my opinion.



wow, I couldnt have said it any better myself!

what do you guys think of that?

This guy *points to self* thinks they are wrong. I'd sooner put a Maxima under a PC system than a Crocea, and that's not a smart idea either.

Derasa isn't even in the same league of light needs...

Brad, this is my opinion:

T maxima needs halides or T5s with good reflectors for long-term health and survival - PCs just won't cut it (in my experience). T Derasa, on the other hand, can thrive under VHOs and potentially PCs if enough watts and decent reflectors are present. The latter, as well as Hippopus sp. and T squamosas, are accustomed to living in deeper waters than their shallow, light-hungry cousins, which is why they are found on sand beds in the wild. I hope this helps.

it all boils down to PAR. If you have many PC lights and your clams are at water level yeah you can do it; but PAR on PC's drop drastically as the placment of clams gets lower in the tank. Which is why MH's and T-5's are the most preferred and reccommened lighting, mainly do to the fact that they can penetrate the water better. So with the knowledge of your PAR output on your lights and what type of clam you have (knowing what type of light they like to have) you should have a happy healthy clam for a long time.

Which is why good reflectors--parabolic in shape--are very important! T5s may be "all the rage" these days, but ones that do not have individual reflectors are generally no better than PCs; the penetration (and therefore PAR) is SLIGHTLY better, but it increases exponentially if all the light is able to reflect into the tank.

Which is why good reflectors--parabolic in shape--are very important! T5s may be "all the rage" these days, but ones that do not have individual reflectors are generally no better than PCs; the penetration (and therefore PAR) is SLIGHTLY better, but it increases exponentially if all the light is able to reflect into the tank.I would also add that not all T5s are High Output as well. Non-HOs aren't very good for keeping high light requiring critters even with individual reflectors.

alright, thanks for all the input... i just thought i would make sure with you guys about the information my friend was given... granted even though i've had nothing but luck keeping stuff people said i couldn't im not ballsy enough to try a clam...

man i wish i had better lights

Here's the clam I bought from Capp Bay. It wasn't a part of the special deal but it's still a clam. :thumbs:

Has anyone else had the clams from this powerbuy die on them?

It's strange. On Friday evening (the 30th), the one in my big reef tank was open and looking great. Saturday morning, he was dead (yes, definitely and obviously dead).

So I thought dang.

Then I came into work this morning and found that the one I put into my nano tank at work died over the weekend.

It seems funny to me that both of these systems would have it happen at exactly the same time, especially since the systems are totally different... I'm wondering if anyone else has seen any problems with these?

That is interesting. I was away this weekend, but both of my clams seemed (pardon the pun) happy as a clam.

Humph...

Well I don't know what happened. I know it's not lighting, temperature, parameters... let alone the two systems factor. Even then, I can't imagine what would have been wrong with the clams that would cause them to die... weird.

Are you feeding the clams with anything other than the tanks' lighting?

were the clams fully extended or did it look like they were kinda closed up. Also did you happen to notice any cone shaped snails around the clam?

Sorry for being slow on the response guys...

Yes, I was feeding DTs and Microvert. The clams were extended, but not fully. In other words, there was no shell edge visible, the mantle covered it, but they weren't hanging way out of the shells.

Has anyone else had the clams from this powerbuy die on them?

It's strange. On Friday evening (the 30th), the one in my big reef tank was open and looking great. Saturday morning, he was dead (yes, definitely and obviously dead).

So I thought dang.

Then I came into work this morning and found that the one I put into my nano tank at work died over the weekend.

It seems funny to me that both of these systems would have it happen at exactly the same time, especially since the systems are totally different... I'm wondering if anyone else has seen any problems with these?

Yes, I have heard a few stories and now it seems like mine is starting to die. I am running him under MH lighting with great water quality. I feed DTs about 3 times a week. I was doing wonderful for a long time and for about the last week will not open up or respond to light very well. Last night he tried to jump from where he was, I picked him up and he did not even close his shell to my touch. I think he is on his way out. It is going to be off to the QT tank for him. I am shocked that I have heard about 5-6 clams have died from Cap Bay in this power buy!

perhaps the over feeding of DT's is whats doing it....I dont feed my clams anything but light....come to think of it I dont even feed my corals really, what ever the fish produce as waste or the corals get at feeding from the fish. IMO, what ever you scratch off your glass is enough for your clams to handle. I wonder if people are feeding their clams too much and its causing a block in their system.

I feed once a week with phyto of some sort or another, but I doubt overfeeding is a problem as at least two people have mentioned to me their clams aren't doing well in a tank with other clams that are doing well.

I feed once a week with phyto of some sort or another, but I doubt overfeeding is a problem as at least two people have mentioned to me their clams aren't doing well in a tank with other clams that are doing well.
Add me to that list. My big reef has a Derasa and a Maxima and both are doing very well.

These croceas were not the highest grade clams to begin with. They were all somewhat bleached, so it's not all that surprising to hear that their is a higher than average mortality rate.

Regardless, $20 for a clam that's normally ~$100 is/was a great way for me to try them out. I don't think I'll do it again, and I'm glad I only lost $40 (for two) to find that out as opposed to $200.

well add me to the list as well. came in this morning to the clam all kinds of shrunken into itself and smelling like putrid blah. Fortunately I think i got it out befor any real issues arrose. The other two guys are looking great, ima tho they werent from the PB.

Well my Cap Bay clam can be added to the death toll! :( He passed last night after we did everything we could to save him.

man sorry to hear that brandon.....Has anyone who bought a clam from there lived?

I think its just a bad month for clams... I lost my gold clam this week as well but it was bought a looong time ago and had nothing to do with the PB @ CBA

man sorry to hear that brandon.....Has anyone who bought a clam from there lived?

I got one from there right after the power buy, it lasted about two weeks. it was a small one and I understand they are a lot harder to care for. All my other clams are doing well.

Mine died last week also.

for some reason that queen song pops into my mind......

"dunh dunh dunh Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust."

ok tastless joke I know. It sure is ashame this happened.

Mine are doing great. My little Maxima has a serious problem as of last night and may be dead as I type. He was curled up deep inside the shell, but when I thought he was dead, he snapped shut when I tried to pick him up.

Perhaps there was a parasite or disease running around the lot and we picked it up? I don't hold anything against CBA. All the clams looked perfectly healthy and were responsive when I saw them the afternoon of the first day of the power buy.

I by no means hold anything against CBA, they get a lot of my money and attention to being one of the best FS's. I think you might be right about the parasite, I might for the sake of my other two do a freshwater dip.

I by no means hold anything against CBA, they get a lot of my money and attention to being one of the best FS's. I think you might be right about the parasite, I might for the sake of my other two do a freshwater dip.


Ya Nothing against Cap Bay... Must have been a bad set of clams... that stuff happens!!!

I will however be crushed if my other two clams die that I've had for over 1.5years.

It's a clam-spiracy!
:lol3:

They actually shipped their first online shipment.... the guy was very persistent, even though the online store wasn't open yet

Well, RIP 2" Maxima. One of the Croceas I got from Cap is extended, but very unresponsive. I can actually reach down and touch the mantle and it only retracts a little then. One of my Derasas is ailing, but I'm not convinced it's the same problem. My big Crocea spat out a glob of black stuff that may or may not be related, but is responsive and fully extended.

My biggest concern is really that Cap Bay is aware of this not because I feel they have to do anything about our clams, but because it would be a terrible shame if their collection got devastated. That kind of loss can kill a fantastic store financially.

Kayla, since you're on this thread, can you make sure they know? With their huge system they may not see it, but this is way more than coincidence.

Has anyone figured out that this one is my fault? I started this **** thing and even this blew up in my face. Ever feel like you just can't win? I need to figure out how to blame Brandon on this one as well, but I can't quite figure it out.

what are you talking about cameron?

LOL He is ragging on me Lee... (AND being a putz!!!)

I am sure some how it is my fault. I touched the clam tank at the very start of the PB and I have the touch of death!!! But on the other hand, if Cameron had never set up the PB in the first place..... COme to think of it Cameron, it is your fault and I want my $20 back!!!

No I think George is right, Cap Bay need to know, not for our sake because things happen but incase if is a vendor issue or an issue in their tanks!

ahh i get it, so kinda its directly both your guys fault...sooo i'll expect 20 from you and 20 from cameron :p lol, nah it doesnt bother me any. Its just unfortunate I mean things like this happen, tho yes capp bay should know about this. Oh BTW, i used that blue water stuff, its actually pretty cool, made the water change in my 15 pretty darn simple. Spec gravity of 1.024 not too shabby for free.

I'm going to sue Cameron for criminal negligence for not warning me this could happen.

Then I'm going to sue nature in a class action for not labeling their clams with clear warnings for the dangers they pose to other livestock.

Then I'll sue myself for buying them.

ahhh... levity... just what I needed.

Then I'll sue myself for buying them.


bwa hahahahahahaha :dance:

Well, my 1st Clam Legion of Smyrna stands cleanly decimated. Or at least fits the definition of execution, if not survivors.

Lost:
1 Maxima
1 Derasa
1 Crocea

Surviving:
1 Derasa
3 Crocea

In light of these problems, perhaps a soon-to-be-discussed topic for a meeting might be quarantine tanks. How to set up cheaply and requirements for quarantining different types of stock such as fish, soft corals, LPS, SPS, and Clams.

No need to re-hash the benefits. I think we all can see what those are. :doh:

Wow... I too lost my 2 Croceas from the power buy-the first inverts I've lost in my tank except for a snail or two. :sad: The last one went about a week and a half ago, one day after he tipped himself over and shed his foot. Now my other 2 Croceas that have been with me for over a year are not looking too great, as is my large Derasa I got from Doug. At first my smallest Crocea would not open at all, for 3 or 4 days, and the larger one would close up every now and then. About 2 days ago, the Derasa was looking real deflated and not happy.

As of today, they are all opening up again, the smallest Crocea looks weak and the larger Crocea only fully opens some of the times. The Derasa comes and goes, he opens fully, but looks deflated a little at times. Man, I hope they make it. I've never FW dipped them before, I actually have to bring my PH down on my RO water since it's about 8.9 out of the tap. Guess I'll look into it, I really hate to cut the threads on my Croceas, they've been on the same big flat rock for a long time. :sad:



Big D

Forgot to mention, I tested everything Wednesday thinking I had some major issues, here's the results:


Temp- 78.0 (fluctuates from 77.8-78.4)
Salinity- 1.025
Nitrate- 0
Nitrite- 0
Ammonia- 0
PH- 8.2 to 8.29 (new probe)
Total Akalinity- 4.0
Borate Akalinity- 1.3
Carbonate Akalinity- 2.7
Calcium- 350
Mag- 1500


I know my calcium is a little low and my mag is a little high, but I really had anticipated something to be off a lot worse. I'm running all T5's on this tank and have been for 5 months now. The original Crocea's have been in this tank for about 4 months and the Derasa for about 3 with no problems until a week ago or so.


Big D

I think it was some sort of disease/bacteria/whatever that affected the filter feeders. I plan to take stock of my sponges this week-end to see if it's a generalized filter feeder issue.

On initial (i.e. not lifting out rocks) inspection, the sponges look fine, though.

I dissected the derasa with a razor and saw nothing out of the ordinary (assuming they have a relatively similar biology to oysters), but the central area was filled with some black gook. Very similar to the black gook that my big crocea spat out a couple days ago before he snapped back from being closed up for 2 days.

Unfortunately, though I have a microscope, I know nothing about any real marine biology to diagnose it.

yeah I have no doubt it had some sort of bacteria, my other two clams have been acting weird, but finally today started to respond better so I think they were hit too hard by it. Yeah Big D I dont see to much wrong with your parms, actually the high mag is very good for the clams.

As for the topic of QT tanks.... I would love to share some thoughts on different dips and QT methods since I believe 100% in them.

As far as what could be affecting different clams I have a few ideas but nothing that I can prove. Macteria is the first thought. As a crule test subject, I am clam sitting for two weeks with a baby maxima clam right now. We will see how he reacts if these still is anything in the tank in the form of a biological agent. Spoke with Sam over at aquabuys, since he knows more about clams then I do, and he meantoned something abot pinched mantel, I do not know much about it but I am fixing to start reading up on it.

My theory is that it was a bad batch of clams from a vendor but that is just in theory. I in no way want to implicate that this is based off anything excapt for a hunch at this time.

I am much more versed in fish and invert pathology then bivalve anatomy and phys. So much for me to learn on the subject.

I'm going to look into fresh water dipping to start... if anyone has any insight on this, please let me know as I have not done it on a clam before. All I know is if I loose the big Derasa, I'm going to be hatting it!!! I love that guy and don't want to have to try to replace him. I noticed last night that my small Crocea is getting worse. He is gapping and there is an area by his foot that I can see through to the rock. :boo: He hasn't been the same since he finally opened back up. His mantle looks smaller. It's not that he isn't extending his mantle, it looks like it has physically shrunk. The larger looks better at times, but last night his inhalent aperature (mouth, I guess) was tightly shut.


Big D

While I'm not ruling out some sort of bacteria, I think we need to explore other possibilities before making assumptions.
What about environmental changes? Seems that this is all happening during a fairly significant season change and having an effect on more clams than just the ones that were bought during this PowerBuy.

While I'm not ruling out some sort of bacteria, I think we need to explore other possibilities before making assumptions.
What about environmental changes? Seems that this is all happening during a fairly significant season change and having an effect on more clams than just the ones that were bought during this PowerBuy.



I can see your point Tony, but you have to admit this would have to be one pretty big coincidence. We've had a lot of folks chime in here with the same exact symptoms.

I don't think anyone here is pointing any fingers though. I know for myself, I just want to try to save the guys I've got left. All I was looking for was some tips if anyone had them...


David

Oh no... I wasn't worried about that. CBA holds their credibility just fine. I just think there may be more going on here that us non scientists aren't seeing.

Wonder if it could be somehow be pollen related?.. Filter feeders vs pollen-I don't know, just hope I can get my other 3 back to where they were nice and happy.


David

oops double post

I got one from there right after the power buy, it lasted about two weeks. it was a small one and I understand they are a lot harder to care for. All my other clams are doing well.


Well my largest and oldest clam is about dead, I am watching the others but I am looking for a complete loss.

man sorry to hear that brandon.....Has anyone who bought a clam from there lived? I have two from the powerbuy that are alive and healthy. They have had no problems whatsoever, but I will let you all know if something changes.

Kayla, since you're on this thread, can you make sure they know? With their huge system they may not see it, but this is way more than coincidence. Yes, I will certainly inform Jeff of this. He likes to figure these issues out, even if they aren't good.

By any chance, how many of you have been feeding DT's to the dead clams?

By any chance, how many of you have been feeding DT's to the dead clams?


No DT's here, I've never owned any of their phyto... All I have fed the tank that they may have ingested is Cyclopeze and Reef-Nutriotions Roti-Feast, and what ever they get from my normal feedings of Spirulina enhanced Mysis and Brine to the fish and LPS.


I went ahead and fresh water dipped my other 3 clams last night with hopes that they will pull out of whatever they have going on. My decision to do so was based on a few things: the hole in my smallest Crocea's tissue near his foot had gotten larger and he was still gapping, also, I witnessed my Derasa expell what looked to be flakes of tissue a couple of times within a few hours and he was still deflated. My larger Crocea seems to come and go as far as symptoms. After the dip, they all opened up, but the Derasa and small Crocea were gapping. I assume it was due to the huge amount of stress from the dip. I checked on them with lights off this morning before leaving for work and it didn't look good, especially for the little guy. It looks as though his mantle is shrinking towards the rear of his shell very similar to the way the two from the PB did. The Derasa still was gapping pretty bad, maybe once the lights come on they'll come around a little more, I sure hope so. :sad:



Big D

By any chance, how many of you have been feeding DT's to the dead clams?

I actually dont feed anything other than normal fish feedings and glass cleanings, I have had a refugium up and running for over a year and stopped adding any filter foods about six months ago, they were actually growing up until now.

Cant point a finger anywhere but here on this one because I have only read the importance of a QT tank about 10,000 times only to say, yeah I'm gonna get roun to it.

I wish I had time to write an e-mail but if someone wanted to ask an expert, who also has time to write a good e-mail... Contact Barry Neigutover at "Clams Direct" He is one of the formost experts on clams in the country and will answer almost any well written e-mail. His addy is barry@clamsdirect.com (barry@clamsdirect.com) . I nominate David to contact him! ;) I wish I had time this afternoon to write him but I don't.

David, As far as the FW dip, as long as it was PH adjusted, the clams should be fairly ok. As far as I have read, (although I have never dipped a calm either) and dip should last a min or two and you should shake the clam around to make sure the FW gets everywhere and removes what you are killing off. My money is on bacteria or protozan at this point. Only clams where a Cap Bay clam was introduced into the system have been effected. I am clam sitting right now and have taken in a baby Maxima clam, I a waiting to see if he is effected since the Cap Bay clam died the day before I took this little guy in. If he does, I think it gives us some real insight into what might be going on.

I do not think the pollen is a factor. There would be documented die off from past years and all across the board this year if that was the case. There is too much of a corralation between the introduction of a Cap Bay clam and the die off in that system.

never feed my clams anything, I use to feed DT's, but that was ages ago, just glass scrapings and whatever food they get from the fish. Ive heard of freshwater dips going as long as 20 minutes, there is a whole read on doing that over on RC. One of my older clams is flux. a bit some times he looks good, other times hes a lil bunched up in his shell. The other guy I have seems to be ok, so I guess we'll see the fate of them.

Add another dead clam to the list. This is sad.

mine bought the farm also. But then I been having cyano problem.

I am not going to try another clam till I learn much more about them

Thanks for the nomination Brandon, ;) I havent had a chance to email Barry yet, but I do plan on it... hopefully tomorrow. Just wanted to let everyone know the status of my guys after the dip. Sadly, my little Crocea did not make it. :sad: RIP little guy, he was my first clam, had him for a little over a year.

The good news is, my other two are looking better every day. Today was the first day my Derasa didn't get all deflated looking at some point like he had been. He still expelled a little crap one time that I saw, but it wasn't as bad as before either. The FW dip appears to have stressed out the Pocillapora that is growing on him, but I think it will survive (maybe he needs another dip, :D JK...). My only Crocea left seems to be getting better also. There is no evidence yet of tissue retraction like the others so hopefully he'll make it.



Big D

I knew if anyone could articulate what is going on it was you. I wish I had the time to help out, but as you can see by me being up this late, I have had ALOT of late nights at work here recently! If anyone can help though it should be Berry. I wish I had some time to research a bit more but I still feel like it is some type of pathogen that has invaded the systems. I can not think of any other reason otherwise healthy clams would up and die after being introduced to the Cap Bay clams. Unless it is some type of "Clam Cold" if you will.

Good news is the Baby Maxima that I am clam sitting has shown no signs of illness but I have only had him since Thursday. I will have him for about another week or so, that should give me a good idea if it is related, if it cleared in the 12 hours since my Cap Bay clam dies and I introduced this little guy, or if it is totally unrelated!

well looks like the disease/cold spread to one of my oldest clams. Today was a tough day for me, the oldest clam in my tank has passed. Well it wasnt completely gone, but it sure was close....I could see thu the foot and the internal organs were all shredded and falling apart so I took it out befor it made a mess of my water parms. I have one guy left and he's lookin pretty good, I sure hope he continues to do so cuz the passing of my 80 clam today just hurt, I dont think I could go thu it again....well the one left was only 35...but its not the monitary value that hurts, its the connection that I had with these guys....oh well it happens I supose.

Lost the other Derasa last night and I'm still not convinced that my 6" Crocea is done with whatever it is/was yet. I've been doing 25% water changes each week since this started, but I'm not sure it's doing anything. Last night the big Crocea was spewing out some white goop that looked like he was coughing up milk. We'll see how it looks this afternoon.

Worst part about this is I have nobody to blame buy myself for not having a quarantine tank set up for a display with ~$400-$500 worth of clams in it.

You gotta wonder how many people actually have QT tanks setup with lighting that would support a clam for any length of time?... Also, we picked these guys up almost 2 months ago-most people only QT for 4 maybe 6 weeks. Just hate it that the itch to pick up a few more clams for a decent price turned into this.


Big D

Yeah, I was thinking about that last night as I smelled the lingering odor of death in my tank. Even if I had quarantined, I'd still be in this spot. And if it wasn't from the CBA clams, then it would have gone over anyway.

I guess I figure that a few weeks with a carbon filter in the QT tank might have scrubbed whatever it was out.

You gotta wonder how many people actually have QT tanks setup with lighting that would support a clam for any length of time?... Also, we picked these guys up almost 2 months ago-most people only QT for 4 maybe 6 weeks. Just hate it that the itch to pick up a few more clams for a decent price turned into this.


Big D

Having a spare light around with that much power is not something most of us have. But you are right it would not have mattered here But just imagine the loss a business like cap Bay would have if something were to infect their tank.

I guess it is good that nothing has so far affected their tanks. We think we are taking a chance without QT'ing. They really are living on the edge with new shipments in all the time

dont they QT their things tho? I'ld imagine they would seeing the size of them.

Lost my CB Clam about a month ago. Didn't think about a pandemic, but as of this past weekend I have lost my 2 smaller Croceas which had been in my tank for 4 and 5 months. Has anyone done a count on dead clams since PB and maybe somebody can let us know about dead clams pre-powerbuy.

pre pb i've never lost a clam. So far tho 2 dead, 1 that was from PB and one that was not.

dont they QT their things tho? I'ld imagine they would seeing the size of them.

I cant see how any retail business that size would be able to QT all their livestock. But maybe they do.

I lost my last clam over a year ago, I have lost four in the last month, including the newly added one.

On the bright side, the shells together make a wonderful pod home in the refuge, and they also make awesome natural frag plugs as well.

I was not in on this PB, but all my Derasa's have died in the last 3 months. Also a Crocea or 2....At one point I had 9 in my tanks for over 2 years. Now I have one Crocea left.

weird.....

Todd, have you traded anything with anyone that you have brough into you tank from someone who got a cap bay clam?!? I am interested if there could be infection carried from system to system on macro algae, corals, etc...

I still don't think this is a PB isolated issue... but that's just my opinion.

okay now i guess i can be added to this list (not a good list to be on thats for sure) my power buy corcea looks like its about to kick the bucket all was well yesterday i come home this afternoon and its all shriveled up spitting out mucus type junk its not responsive to me putting my hand over the light the siphon is clamped shut and the mouth is gaping open. upon seeing this i did a fw dip as well as a 20% wc... oh well i guess you get what you pay for!! ..........btw i run purigen 24/7. so how many PB clams have recently past???

My two clams are doing great, but neither came from the PB. The only thing to hit my water from CBA was a fire shrimp.

hey cameron, good to see ya buddy! Glad to know your clams are doing well, even tho they arent from the PB.

I havent l;ooked into thios thread since I did not particip[ate in the Power Buy. What symptoms are you guys seeing before death. Be as specific as you can. What does the mantle do? How does the clam react? Doi they attach? Etc.

Freshwater dips are a updated method of treating one of the big ailments of clams nowadays- pinched mantle disease. Iron seems to have an accelerated effect on this ailment, so GFO's were considered a detriment. But I have also heard a lot of croceas that have come out of vietnam have been loading with pyramidal snails, which will kill clams. Has anyone specifically checked for these? I dont think Cap Bay gets their clams from Vietnam, but who knows with these croceas.

Mine didn't make it either. Lost it about two weeks after purchase. Bad times!

I lost three. All the same way. Mantle goes from full extension to partial to barely to not. Clam goes from reactive to sluggish to dead.

so the only symptom seen is failure of the mantle to expand, gaping, and then death? And it appears to be virulent ot other existing clams?

I will certainly inform Jeff of this. He likes to figure these issues out, even if they aren't good.


Just wondering if there was any word from the Bay.

Ok, I got a hold of Berry today over at Clamsdirect.com. First off, let me tell you he is one of the nicest people I could have imagined. For those of you who do not know, he is considered one of the foremost experts on clams. I called him out of the blue and talked for close to an hour about our situation. For him to take the amount of time to help us, says a lot about his ethics and personality.

Ok, with that being said let me tell you where we are at with this. Berry and I both think it is some sort of disease, be it bacteria or protozoan. One thing I am sure of, after speaking with Berry, is it is not "pinched mantel". I would be very interested to see where Cap Bay gets their clams from. I believe that they come directly overseas. That is good and bad, it would keep prices down but limits some of the checks and balances of wholesalers. (Mind you, I am not sure how ethical wholesalers are about passing off bad clams in the end anyways. Berry could think of one other mass problem such as ours that happened about 4 years ago. Clams were taken from Polynesia and were infected with some sort of Bacteria. They were sold in bulk to a LFS up in California who sold over 300 of them for a grand opening. Within a few weeks, people were complaining of massive clam die off and symptoms almost exactly like our own. The bacteria was then spread to other healthy clams in the tank. The death toll was in the hundreds.

So that is the bad news, the worse news is I still do not know how to correct the issue. Maybe we can go about it this way... If you have lost a clam around the time of the PB that was bought from Cap Bay, Please reply with the text filled out below. Maybe we can figure out a common thread or find a solution if it is not too late. I hate to see any more clams go and it spread to any more clams within our tanks.

I have send Berry the link to this thread and I hope he chimes in with some more insight into the matter. Maybe, together we can find a solution.

-------------------------------------------------------

When did you buy your clam from Cap Bay:

How long after you bought it did it show signs of not doing well:

How long did it take for your clam to die?

Why symptoms did your clam show of illness?

What were your water prams?

What were you adding to the tank (food for fish, supplements, medications, etc)?

Do you have a UV? If so, How big is your total water volume and what size is your UV?

Have your other clams been infected?

How many other clams, if any, have been infected?

What types of clams, if any, have been infected?

How long, since you added the Cap Bay clam, did it take your other clams to show signs of illness?

Have your other clams died?

Have you gotten another clam since your other clams have died? If so, how long after and how long did you wait before adding the new clam?

Is any new addition healthy or is it showing any signs of illness?


---------------------------------------------------------------------

The above might help in figuring out what happened. As of now, I can not suggest that anyone who had a clam die on them, get a new clam. I am currently experimenting with a clam that was added shortly after my Cap Bay clam died to see if there might be something living in the water that would cause harm to any clam added to the tank. Good news is, a week in the tank and it appears to be fine. Bad news, I think it takes a few weeks for the clam to show the illness!

All I know for sure is Cap Bay does not have nearly as many clams, as of this weekend, as they have had in the past. (Per my own estimation) I do not want to start a rumor mill but I wonder if it is more then just coincidance. I tried to ask them about it this weekend but they would not answer any questions on the issue.

I will keep ya'll posted as best as I can!

It just seems to me the silence from Cap Bay is deafening. I figured they would have piped in by now. They have to be aware of this. Something like we’re checking with suppliers, distributors or other retailers.

Had a nice chat with Brandon yesterday and posted something last night but it never posted.

After talking with him, I am almost sure from what he described, that it is not Pinched Mantle. As some of you know, ClamsDirect has been working with some marine labs for a few years now to help us find out what causes this parasite and how to better control it. The lab has set up a control tank where they have placed infected clams and some died after about 6- 8 weeks but most are still alive.

The pathogen that was described to me sounds like the seller did a trans-ship or bought from a under ground wholesaler on the west coast. Every now and then, we receive email/faxes regarding the sale of clams at a VERY low price, so one day while we were in LA we went by and checked it out and the tanks were so foul that I would have not paid $1.00 per clam. Since then I believe that the Federal Fish and Wild Life has shut them down but they open up in a different location from time to time.

I total agree with Brandon regarding not putting any new clams or anything in your systems for a least a few months and continue to do water changes and add some activated carbon to help clean the water.
I know that you have heard this all the time but in closing, I would like to say, quarantine and quarantine everything before placing in your main display tank!

yeah I have no doubt in my mind that it was not pinched mantle.

Have you guys isolated the pathogen ?

Had a nice chat with Brandon yesterday and posted something last night but it never posted.

I total agree with Brandon regarding not putting any new clams or anything in your systems for a least a few months and continue to do water changes and add some activated carbon to help clean the water.
I know that you have heard this all the time but in closing, I would like to say, quarantine and quarantine everything before placing in your main display tank!

Many thanks for taking the time and caring enough to respond in person, it is much appreciated.

And multiple props to Brandon for all his efforts.

You are dead right on the quarantine part, but it really is tough in this case. Most dont have extra lighting for a QT tank powerful enough to sustain a clam, and in this instance, the trouble showed up past normal QT times anyway.

But hindsight is 20/20 cause I just pulled my last clam from my display so I would figure to be down close to five bills with 8 lost clams. That would have easily paid for an adaquate QT light and I would still have clams.


The pathogen that was described to me sounds like the seller did a trans-ship or bought from a under ground wholesaler on the west coast.

Well we still havent heard from the bay so the jury is out ....I guess


btw ~ Welcome to the site, we hope you can stick around permanantly, if not please do drop in from time to time

Thanks for the warm welcome and will drop in and say hi from time to time. :)

But hindsight is 20/20 cause I just pulled my last clam from my display so I would figure to be down close to five bills with 8 lost clams. That would have easily paid for an adaquate QT light and I would still have clams.


In a shallow Q-tank, VHO's, PC or T-5 would be fine but just remember to acclimate them to your lights in your display tank.

EIght clams lost, that is SO sad!!!

We have ID the parasite with Pinched Mantle and now continue to work on where it is coming from and how better to tread it. Once we get through with all the research we will be posting or publishing something in a Reef relative magazine or online publication for all to see. JUst don't want to release bit and pieces at this time.

http://www.clamsdirect.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1982

Yes, Thank you Berry for taking the time. I owe you a consult on Ich anytime you need! ;)

Lee is the only one who has taken the time to post (or PM Me so I can post) the list of questions. I am not sure if it will help but it can not hurt, so please take the time and fill out those few questions.

No, we have not IDed the pathogen that is causing this, that might take a sample of what is being spat out of the clam, a dead clam, or maybe just lots of research off of what is posted by those who have lost clams. Again, there is no "cure" either. I doubt a FW dip will help and me, the dipping king, can not even recommend dipping a clam because I have never done it before. (Except in some bread crumbs with a hint of lemon and then fried, Delish!)

---Posted from Glxtrix----

When did you buy your clam from Cap Bay: March 1st

How long after you bought it did it show signs of not doing well: around april 8th

How long did it take for your clam to die? about 3 days

Why symptoms did your clam show of illness? Mantle not extending, staying close inside shell. Colors were dark. Inside tissue looked really flaky and pale.

What were your water prams? Everything was fine.

What were you adding to the tank (food for fish, supplements, medications, etc)? Fish food was hakari flake, supps were calcium chloride for calcium, baking soda for alk, epson salts for Mg. No other supps.

Do you have a UV? If so, How big is your total water volume and what size is your UV? No UV

Have your other clams been infected? yes 1 other

How many other clams, if any, have been infected? 1 other, the other slightly showed signs but seemed to have gotten better after my purigen and new carbon addition.

What types of clams, if any, have been infected? 1 possibly 2 croceas

How long, since you added the Cap Bay clam, did it take your other clams to show signs of illness? The one that died showed signs right befor the capp bay one died.

Have your other clams died? yes, one other

Have you gotten another clam since your other clams have died? If so, how long after and how long did you wait before adding the new clam? No sir

Is any new addition healthy or is it showing any signs of illness? ---

hmm, that lee kid seems cool :p

Much as it pains me to review this, I hope this helps:

When did you buy your clam from Cap Bay:3/1/2007

How long after you bought it did it show signs of not doing well:5-6 weeks to when my other clams began showing sings, purchased clams started a week later

How long did it take for your clam to die?about 3-4 days after starting signs

Why symptoms did your clam show of illness?in order: lack of response to light, white cloudy spit-up, poor mantle extension, mantle recession inside shell, smell/death

What were your water prams?pH: 8.2, Alk: 4.0 meq/l, 5 ppm Nitrate, 420 Calcium

What were you adding to the tank (food for fish, supplements, medications, etc)?Seachem Reef Advantage, Kalk dosing, Mg, Stronium, Coral Vite, Formula 1 & cyclopeze for food, Kent Phytoplex & live phyto

Do you have a UV? If so, How big is your total water volume and what size is your UV?No UV

Have your other clams been infected?Yes

How many other clams, if any, have been infected?All (6) other clams dead

What types of clams, if any, have been infected?1 maxima, 3 crocea, 2 derasa, and the 2 power buy crocea clams dead

How long, since you added the Cap Bay clam, did it take your other clams to show signs of illness?5-6 weeks. The existing clams (residing healthy for 6 mos to a year+) showed signs first. Smallest (maxima) went first.

Have your other clams died?Yes.

Have you gotten another clam since your other clams have died? If so, how long after and how long did you wait before adding the new clam?No

Is any new addition healthy or is it showing any signs of illness?No

I am sadden to read things like this and so many clams lost!

Do you know how long the supplier had these clams in stock? Has any one been by there to see what the remaining ones look like? Also, wondering if where they house the Tridacnids, is that system on it own or joined with there other tanks????? I would hope that the tank is on it's own system!

The things that concerns me, is that I am now told that they are now shipping and I am in hopes that non of those infected clams have went to other hobbyist around the US and the pathogen being spread.

Hi this is Jeff from Cappuccino Bay.

Wild clams are always suspect.
Because all croceas are wild collected...there in lies the problem.
All of Cappuccino bays Derasa clams , Gigas clams and most of our hundreds of Maxima clams are farm grown not wild collected and therefore not suspect to the stress of wild collection. Most Croceas are collected in Vietnam and subjected to being held by the thousands in closed systems waiting for transport . Just like the problems associated with the parasite "Ick" (Cryptocaryon irritans.) in closed fish systems, clam parasites like Perkinsus proliferate in closed systems .So all it takes is one fish with Ick and soon all your fish in that system have Ick.
I rarely buy wild clams. seldom buy croceas and almost never from Vietnam. Because of this over crowding issue. The power buy of Vietnam croceas was during the same time that other online vender's were selling those cheap crocea clams for 20 and thirty bucks. I thought I would try these inexpensive croceas here at the store.
But like always cheaper didn't equal value.
We at cappuccino bay apologize for this issue.
We are now making it a policy not to carry wild clams anywhere near our hundreds of farms maximas. We will be advising customers of the issues involved with buying wild clams.
..And as store policy , may choose to forgo selling wild clams altogether in the future.
Remember buying farmed clams has the added benefit of not depleting the
reefs of its jewels.
I suggest Barry also makes a pledge to no longer carry wild clams.
Farmed clams seem not to develop pinched mantle or sudden death the way wild clams seem prone to.
Maybe we can cure all clam disease by simply paying a little more and not buying wild clams altogether?
Just a thought.
Jeff CBA

Thanks for stopping by and filling us in. Many thanks.

Hi this is Jeff from Cappuccino Bay.

Wild clams are always suspect.
I rarely buy wild clams. seldom buy croceas and almost never from Vietnam. Because of this over crowding issue. The power buy of Vietnam croceas was during the same time that other online vender's were selling those cheap crocea clams for 20 and thirty bucks. I thought I would try these inexpensive croceas here at the store.
But like always cheaper didn't equal value.
We at cappuccino bay apologize for this issue.
We are now making it a policy not to carry wild clams anywhere near our hundreds of farms maximas. We will be advising customers of the issues involved with buying wild clams.
Jeff CBA

Very honest and strait forward Jeff. We customers appreciate that

I think we all learned a little bit here

Barry
I know you had a situation similar to this where everyone was recieving clams from you and they were dying and killing off other clams in their tanks. How did you go about correcting the problem, did you QT any differently and how do you qt your clams?

Thank you! A valuable lessen for us all. Also Jeff my wife will only let me go to your store if I leave my credit cards at home. lol

Since Jeff mentioned Perkinsus, this happens to be one of the protozoans that does clear up well with a freshwater dip, use of carbon, and removal of GFO. I dont know of this is the bug that the clams had, but if so, following these steps should help to clear up some related issues.

Since Jeff mentioned Perkinsus, this happens to be one of the protozoans that does clear up well with a freshwater dip, use of carbon, and removal of GFO. I dont know of this is the bug that the clams had, but if so, following these steps should help to clear up some related issues.



Hmmm. Removal of GFO?... I actually just started running some GFO and noticed my Derasa kinda started looking a little deflated again. I actually turned the pump off on it 2 nights ago because I wasworried it might somehow be affecting his condition and started running a UV. Brandon, I plan on posting the answers to the questions you posted, it's just I can't get past the first one. :doh: I've got to take a day off from work! I've got the receipt somewhere, just gotta get the time to find it.







Here's what I do know:

When did you buy your clam from Cap Bay: A few days after the PB started (4 days I think)

How long after you bought it did it show signs of not doing well: One died within 2 weeks, the other shed his foot about 3 weeks later and died a day after that.

How long did it take for your clam to die? about a day after showing ill signs on both

Why symptoms did your clam show of illness? retracting mantle, little to no response to light, one shed his foot.

What were your water params?
Temp- 78.0 (fluctuates from 77.8-78.4)
Salinity- 1.025
Nitrate- 0
Nitrite- 0
Ammonia- 0
PH- 8.2 to 8.29 (new probe)
Total Akalinity- 4.0
Borate Akalinity- 1.3
Carbonate Akalinity- 2.7
Calcium- 350
Mag- 1500

What were you adding to the tank (food for fish, supplements, medications, etc)? Using Randy's DIY 2 part Cal/Akl, Kent essential elements to maintain mag and others, feed tank DT's oyster eggs and cyclopeze about once a week alternating the two every week, frozen Mysis and nori for the fish.

Do you have a UV? If so, How big is your total water volume and what size is your UV? Didn't have one at first, just started running one. Total volume is about 210 gals, UV is a coralife TurboTwist 9W (just until I get a bigger one)

Have your other clams been infected? Yes

How many other clams, if any, have been infected? Pretty sure all 3 of them

What types of clams, if any, have been infected? 2 Crocea's and 1 Derasa

How long, since you added the Cap Bay clam, did it take your other clams to show signs of illness? 5 to 6 weeks

Have your other clams died? Yes, the smallest Crocea

Have you gotten another clam since your other clams have died? If so, how long after and how long did you wait before adding the new clam? No

Is any new addition healthy or is it showing any signs of illness? N/A




Big D

Yep, if you have a perkinsus problem (or PM), that protozoan feeds off iron in the water column. GFO is iron oxide, so you will be feeding this pathogen. If you take the GFO out, the pathogen will slowly "starve out".

Yep, if you have a perkinsus problem (or PM), that protozoan feeds off iron in the water column. GFO is iron oxide, so you will be feeding this pathogen. If you take the GFO out, the pathogen will slowly "starve out".

That's what I figured when you posted to remove it. :boo: Just my luck I decide to start running it and it actually turns out I'm feeding a possible parasite. :doh: Looks like it's time to pull out the iron and put in carbon. I know it's not definate that this is what we're dealing with, but a little more carbon treatment shouldn't hurt.


Big D

Sorry for the dumb question, but aren't there some drawbacks to running carbon in a marine reef? Something or someone gave me the impression that it isn't really ideal in reefs unless you're cleaning up medication or something.

i run carbon 24/7.

Barry
I know you had a situation similar to this where everyone was recieving clams from you and they were dying and killing off other clams in their tanks. How did you go about correcting the problem, did you QT any differently and how do you qt your clams?


Is it just me, or does this not seem just a little coincidental?... A name like Scutes, one post, just joined the day of that post, and the underlying meaning in the post.

Hmmm... Maybe it's just me.


Barry, I forgot to mention earlier, thanks for stopping by and trying to help out!!!


Big D

The only thing coincidental is that this problem happened to both stores. My question was directed at barry because he has gone through this.(PM is all over his forums) We are all looking for a solution and because barry brought up QT , I am curious how he QT's, if he has changed his techniques(because of the PM issues) or what he does different so this does not happen again. So, Big D, I think it is just you because I am a clam fanatic, so the name scutes fits me well...and I am just trying to learn from others and better my QT practices.

Looks like I hit a sensitive spot... Oh well, it's still a little fishy (no pun intended) to me!!! :yes:



Just wondering SCUTES, how many PB clams did you buy with your ARC membership?... :eek:



Big D

Never mind, don't bother answering... I'll leave this alone now...



Big D

I was unaware you had to buy something to get involved in this conversation.I was asking a simple question(s) about QT and you go off on some conspiracy theory? :confused: Maybe you should do a little less thinking and pay a bit more attention to your tank. The only person that seems sensative is you, maybe that is the reason you have to put "BIG" into your screen name:lol2:

i find it a bit suspicious too

What is so suspicious about asking someone whos entire business is based on clams, how he deals with situations like this and how he prevents them.

Barry himself is working on figuring this "thing" out, so it would seem that he has more experience than all of us and why not ask him?

I was unaware you had to buy something to get involved in this conversation.I was asking a simple question(s) about QT and you go off on some conspiracy theory? :confused: Maybe you should do a little less thinking and pay a bit more attention to your tank. The only person that seems sensative is you, maybe that is the reason you have to put "BIG" into your screen name:lol2:


Touchy... Touchy... I said I was gonna leave this alone, but I've changed my mind. :D

A simple question would be fine, but trying to back door the only professional that has actually stepped forward in this thread "TO HELP" is a CROCK!!! Just wish other retailers had the integrity to step forward and help out, especially when they have the knowledge to do so! :boo:

As far as me paying attention to my tank,well, I get reminded daily on how I pay too much attention to it already... so you can rest assured that's not a problem.

And lastly, you really might want to consider getting some professional help for your "self security" issues... You have now attempted to take the spotlight off yourself at someone Else's expense more than once in this thread. The "BIG" in my name, as I believe you know, is because I'm not small (imagine that)...

I will be the "bigger" person now and not respond to any more of your posts on this as this truly is getting us no where, kinda like your original post! Sorry everyone for wasting your time.


Not Small D (is that better for you)

LOL David...

Gotta love people who only post on forums to stir up the pot. Listen, Scutes, when you have put as much time and effort into a forum as Big D over there, then you MIGHT have the right to come in here and stir up trouble. In the meantime, please keep from the personal attacks and hijacking of my thread that is meant for good, not your kind of evil.

Your original post came off as sarcastic and and prickish. If you want to know about QTing a clam, please ask... But make sure to ask nicely.

To my knowledge, Clamsdirect has never had an issue like you are making a refrence to. I check everyone before I ask them for help and talked indepth with multiple "experts" before I contacted Berry. Since you have graced us with your presence, I have done mutiple search of different forums to see if I can find refrence of your claims, and I can not. If you have any information to share or a link that I might look at, I would be more then happy to. If not, please do not disrespect a noted expert in the field under the guise of a question.

None of my questions were ever directed at you BigD. The were directed at Barry, regarding QT. He came on stating everyone should QT, asking how other stores QT but never mentioned himself how he QT. I as a consumer has the right to know this(especially buying coral,clams fish-disease carriers). As you say Barry is the only "professional" that has come on here, I think my questions are totally revelant. You are the one that stepped in turned some simple question into a "self security" issue and so on and so forth. I could care less if you are big or small-you are the one that started with sensativity issues-fight fire with fire right? I do not know you and you do not know me, so lets leave it that way unless you can answer my question regarding QT.

I am done arguing with you as well

Well let me answer that question for you then. Like I said, if you would have asked your question in a non-prick sort of way, you would have gotten a non-prick answer! It works kind of easy that way.

As for the QT process, Berry and I have talked a bit in depth about this issue, so if you will accept an answer from me, I would be more then happy to share that with you. Berry is a busy man, I am sure, and he might not come back in here for quite some time. If you want your question answered by him, he has a forum of his own that he might check more often.

Sorry, I was unaware that I was speaking in a "prickish-tone". I am fairly to the point person and did not mean to offend anyone. I have asked this question on his forums and after a warm "welcome to our forum" by sue, I was told barry would answer it, well that never happened. So I decided to ask here. I am not new, just a long time lurker and when I started to read this thread and then barry posted, well the opportunity presented itself. Sorry once again if anyone thinks I am prickish...

Maybe my post should have gone"Hello Barry, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule," oh never mind then I would have been accused of something else.

Well Xyzpdq0121, if you can answer questions for barry feel free.

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to defend Scutes here. I don't know any of you, so I think I can be objective here.

I saw nothing "prickish" or sarcastic about his question. In fact, it was a perfectly legitimate question, posed to an expert in the field, and frankly one that I'd be interested in seeing the answer to as well.

CapBay seems to have answered the question of what they'll be doing different after their situation...why not ask what Clams Direct has done or changed after becoming aware of pinched mantel? (regardless whether they and their customers were directly hit with it).

Maybe you guys were suspicious that it was his first post. Sure it's interesting, but that didn't warrant such a negative response. Think about it, if you were wrong about his intentions, you both came off like...well you know.

David

CapBay seems to have answered the question of what they'll be doing different after their situation...why not ask what Clams Direct has done or changed after becoming aware of pinched mantel? (regardless whether they and their customers were directly hit with it).


if you have read anything posted by barry you would know the answer to the whole PM discussions....which IMA have been going on for a long time and was even posted here in this thread about some issues and who hes consulting. As stated from barry on the last page...



"Had a nice chat with Brandon yesterday and posted something last night but it never posted.

After talking with him, I am almost sure from what he described, that it is not Pinched Mantle. As some of you know, ClamsDirect has been working with some marine labs for a few years now to help us find out what causes this parasite and how to better control it. The lab has set up a control tank where they have placed infected clams and some died after about 6- 8 weeks but most are still alive.

The pathogen that was described to me sounds like the seller did a trans-ship or bought from a under ground wholesaler on the west coast. Every now and then, we receive email/faxes regarding the sale of clams at a VERY low price, so one day while we were in LA we went by and checked it out and the tanks were so foul that I would have not paid $1.00 per clam. Since then I believe that the Federal Fish and Wild Life has shut them down but they open up in a different location from time to time.

I total agree with Brandon regarding not putting any new clams or anything in your systems for a least a few months and continue to do water changes and add some activated carbon to help clean the water.
I know that you have heard this all the time but in closing, I would like to say, quarantine and quarantine everything before placing in your main display tank! "

I honestly don't understand what all the fuss was about - no need to explain it to me, either, but what say we all relax a bit :D

http://darkstar.hikers.net/%7Eskye/img/chill%20pill.jpg

And yes, I have an image for just about every situation :D

of our hundreds of Maxima clams are farm grown not wild collected and therefore not suspect to the stress of wild collection. Most Croceas are collected in Vietnam and subjected to being held by the thousands in closed systems waiting for transport .

Where do I start with this.J

I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit several clam farms as well as collection stations. Anyone that is selling Tridacna maximas that are over 2” are most likely not farmed but wild collected. It takes approx. 2 years to raise a maxima to 2” and the farms can not afford to hold on to them much longer. Approx. 80% of the Tridacna crocreas come from Vietnam and some of the collection stations are better than others. One station that comes to mind is where they collect thousands of clams and put them in lagoons till they ship them out and some of the better collection stations place them in long raceways which is better. At this time, there is no proof that only clams that come from Vietnam carry this parasite. I am aware of clams that came from Fiji that also showed signs of Pinched Mantle. I could go on and on but time will not allow me to do so at this time.

And as store policy , may choose to forgo selling wild clams altogether in the future.Remember buying farmed clams has the added benefit of not depleting the
reefs of its jewels. I suggest Barry also makes a pledge to no longer carry wild clams.

It would be a great world if we could only sell farmed raised corals, fish, inverts and clams but supply and demand will not allow this as they can not meet the demand as it is.
Now with that being said, there are farms that tell the wholesalers that gigas, squamosa and other Tridacnids are farmed but not so in some cases. They are raised in the ocean and then later placed in 20’ + raceway and are called farmed raised. There are very few truly cultured/farmed raised Tridacnids. Marshall Islands and Tonga come to mind.

Barry
I know you had a situation similar to this where everyone was recieving clams from you and they were dying and killing off other clams in their tanks. How did you go about correcting the problem, did you QT any differently and how do you qt your clams?

Don’t recall that ever happening in great numbers. A few times we did a group sell and out of 12 clams, 4 died within 3 days. There was a etailer in LA that sold a lot of Phonepe clams to a LFS in San Leando CA several years ago and there were massive die off in the hundreds. Do we loss clams, of course we do but not in any great numbers.

For time sake, can’t go into great detail but we have two different systems at our facility. Each one on it’s own system, i.e., sumps and skimmers. One is a q-tank that will hold up to 200 - 450 clams plus depending what size of clams they are. We fresh water all croceas but not maximas or other species as they don’t seem to be as tolerable as the croceas. Tanks have UV’s and cleaned weekly as well as pumps and other equipment.

To my knowledge, Clamsdirect has never had an issue like you are making a refrence to. I check everyone before I ask them for help and talked indepth with multiple "experts" before I contacted Berry.

We are honored that Anthony Calfo, Bob Fenner asked me to provide some information in their clam chapter in the book, “Reef Invertebrates” as well as images. Spent almost a year providing information and discussing in person with James Fatherree in his writings of “Giant Clams in the Sea and the Aquarium”, released this past September. Spoke at IMAC in Chicago and this past Sept, MACNA in Houston as well as many cities around the US to clubs/organization. Wrote an online article for Wet Web Media and have an article coming out in August in Aquarium Fish Magazine. Spent this last 12 years in studying and observing Tridacnids and have done a lot of study trials to better understand this awesome creature. Am I an expert, I think I know more than the average aquarist when it comes to keeping and caring for Tridacnids. J

As far as not responding to queries on our Clam Forum, I simple do not have the time but answer ALL phone calls as well as emails when it comes to questions.

Sorry for the long post but wanted to address some of the questions and concerns in this thread.

Best regards,

Barry

Thankyou Barry for taking time out of your busy schedule to help clear some of the mess thats going on here. I'ld also like to thankyou for taking time to also help find a cure for PM disease and hope that it will come soon. You are a huge asset to the reef community and we all thankyou for your dedication and hard work.

Berry,

Thank you again for you time and you cander in this thread. It is greatly appriciated.

I plan on making a post this evening or tomorrow about QTing clams. I have to gather more facts in addition to what you and I spoke about on the phone before I can talk with any type of authority on the subject. If you have quicker turn around on a post of that nature to save me the learning curve, I would be more then happy to turn the floor over to you! :)

I hope in the future we can get you to Atlanta to speak to our little ol' club about clams. I know it would be a huge turnout and a great night.

I for one will definately be there if that were to ever happen.

Barry, if your going to come over on this board ... the least you could do is be honest .

One week you buy your clams from Joe on a Sunday and then list them on your site the next feakin day.
The next week you buy clams from Larry , then list those newly purchased clams on your website two days later. Thats hardly a quarantine procedure.

Your hardly helping with your "do as I say, rather then do as I do" mantra.

"Choose your next words wisely" {The 300} : other wise I will post photos of Leader Aquatics clam vats.(wink)

your truly ,
Jeff Cappuccino Bay

Jeff,

I will not get caught up in a internet war or bashing, serves no purpose.

Since you seem to know all about ClamsDirect. ;)

#1. Who is Joe??

After buying clams it is a few days before we take any pictures and then a few days to load them and when we take order, it is another 3-5 days before we ship. That come up to 7-12 days prior to shipping. We would love to hold on to them longer but don't have the space and from our experience, if something is wrong, it normally will show up with 3-5 days. That has been our experience after keeping and shipping approx. 30,000 clams.

2. Have not bought any clams from Lerry in over a year and a half. :)

See you still have wild clams for sale!! :confused2:

I guess you dont recall visiting Joe and Brett at their clam house Sunday a few weeks ago?
Then their PII clams showing up on your website the following day?
either Im not telling the truth ....or your a liar.

Which is it?

Is this really necessary? I havent read word for word but how did this get turned into competition and he said, she said???

Forum member's I am sorry that Jeff has decided to make this a personal attack on your forum and I refuse to participate.

In closing, Jeff, sorry you are getting some bad information but I have never gone to LA on a Sunday to buy clams. That is the day I spend with my family and ride my Harley.

If you have something that you wish to discuss with me, please call or send me an email.

Sorry again forum member's for using your forum for something that is non-productive.

Barry, if your going to come over on this board ... the least you could do is be honest .

One week you buy your clams from Joe on a Sunday and then list them on your site the next feakin day.
The next week you buy clams from Larry , then list those newly purchased clams on your website two days later. Thats hardly a quarantine procedure.

Your hardly helping with your "do as I say, rather then do as I do" mantra.

"Choose your next words wisely" {The 300} : other wise I will post photos of Leader Aquatics clam vats.(wink)

your truly ,
Jeff Cappuccino Bay



What the hell is the deal with this?!! Why do you keep insisting on trying to slam the one advanced aquarist that has offered to try to help us in this situation?!! Post the **** pics if you like... What does that have to do with the members here that now have infected tanks and are trying to save the clams they have left? Thousandths of dollars and sadly many years worth of clams have died in the last 4 weeks and all you guys can do is try to blackball someone offering help.

Jeff, why did it take 24 days for you to reply to this thread?!!! On top of that, you appeared to have a pretty good idea of what the disease might be, which probably would have been a little helpful to us LOOONG AGO!!! I've only lost 3 of my 5 clams, but there are many folks on here that have lost everything. The first reported death was on the 2nd of last month, Kayla said she would definately tell you there seemed to be a problem on the 15th. Not until 11 days later do you chime in, only on a defensive due to Barry showing up. I lost one of my non-powerbuy clams in those 11 days, would have been nice to know what I was dealing with!

My point in this is, if you're not going to contribute to helping us rectifying this situation, then why are you even here? Your employees will tell you, I don't spend a whole lot of money in your store, frankly with 3 kids I can't really afford to any more. I have spent a few hundred dollars in there within the last year though, as have most of the members on this board! So now I will tell you Jeff, as a retailer-"Choose your next words wisely"!!!



David

BIG D ....Well put

Thank you berry for chimming in...few additional questions.

How big are your 2 systems, must be huge to fit up to 450 clams!!!:o

Regarding QT, you did not mention how long you QT?Do you QT untill they look like they do not have PM and what do you look for? or is there a standard time frame? Sorry so direct,I hate typing.

On a side note. You say farmed clams can not meet the demand. I see atleast 10+ farmed clams in most stores i visit, seem to be enough to supply the demand(just my opinion) and the farmed ones are so much more colorful(my opinion again) and I have seen them in a variety of sizes....so why not go farmed and stop supporting the places you say just take them off the reef and keep them in a lagoon and claimed they are farmed??

It just seems to me the silence from Cap Bay is deafening.


Someone have his panties in a wad or is it a full moon?

Well if what capp bay is saying is true(and it seems like they probabally buy from some of the same wholesallers-there are not too many of them) and berry does not QT his clams, it would be very interesting and go aginst the "song and dance" he(berry) gave us earlier

jeff mentioned barry buys them from a wholesaler in LA on the weekend and monday morning they are for sale on his site....how could you possibly QT like that???

Once again berry, How long do you QT for?

Scutes:

Please read Berry's Post here:

After buying clams it is a few days before we take any pictures and then a few days to load them and when we take order, it is another 3-5 days before we ship. That come up to 7-12 days prior to shipping. We would love to hold on to them longer but don't have the space and from our experience, if something is wrong, it normally will show up with 3-5 days. That has been our experience after keeping and shipping approx. 30,000 clams.


What the hell is the deal with this?!! Why do you keep insisting on trying to slam the one advanced aquarist that has offered to try to help us in this situation?!! Post the **** pics if you like... What does that have to do with the members here that now have infected tanks and are trying to save the clams they have left? Thousandths of dollars and sadly many years worth of clams have died in the last 4 weeks and all you guys can do is try to blackball someone offering help.

Jeff, why did it take 24 days for you to reply to this thread?!!! On top of that, you appeared to have a pretty good idea of what the disease might be, which probably would have been a little helpful to us LOOONG AGO!!! I've only lost 3 of my 5 clams, but there are many folks on here that have lost everything. The first reported death was on the 2nd of last month, Kayla said she would definately tell you there seemed to be a problem on the 15th. Not until 11 days later do you chime in, only on a defensive due to Barry showing up. I lost one of my non-powerbuy clams in those 11 days, would have been nice to know what I was dealing with!

My point in this is, if you're not going to contribute to helping us rectifying this situation, then why are you even here? Your employees will tell you, I don't spend a whole lot of money in your store, frankly with 3 kids I can't really afford to any more. I have spent a few hundred dollars in there within the last year though, as have most of the members on this board! So now I will tell you Jeff, as a retailer-"Choose your next words wisely"!!!
David

^^^This get my vote for post of the year!!!!

Jeff, I can not believe your attitude towards this. NO ONE has attacked your store or you for selling these clams. NO ONE! Heck, there have been at least a few times in two threads that more then one of us have said, "No fault to Cap Bay but...." I have to agree with Big D here though, I can not believe that you KNEW about a problem and did not tell anyone. We tried to get in contact with ya'll. I have asked your staff when I have been in there.. You did not come on here till a day after I asked Kayla to personally ask you if you had any information for us to help us out. I reach out to a few contact that I have in the aquarium world and Berry's name came up as the person to call, so I asked him for help, since none was coming from your way. He was nice enough to come on here and agree to read some things and give me his personal opinion on where to direct my research to help out the members of the ARC. Maybe I can find a solution, maybe I can't but if I could have had your help earlier, or have your help now, maybe your clam population in your store would not be wiped out!

I can not believe you have the gaul to turn this into a pissing match! It really has opened my eyes alot about what is behind the sceens of a LFS that I had been really impressed about. Unlike Big D over there, I have spent THOUSANDS in your store within the past year and had my eye on a new tank, stand, and canopy at the front of the store plus some of the nice liverock to go into it. If this is how you conduct yourself on a personal and professional level, I think that I am going to have to reconsider what stores I patron in the future. It would not be the first time, ala Under the Wave. I am not into idle threats so no need to "choose your words wisely" with me, your actions state them loud and clear.

wow that was a long read. really sux that u guys r having probs.turned ugly hear at the end scutes you must have picked up some pretty bad clams from clamdirec. did yours die? You should have got them at Capbay they have tons of clams but i guess some are dead from them to.

This thread is hidden in the announcement section. I didnt know of it until some one told me Barry was replying and even then I could not find the thread until some one pointed out its location.

Barry is bold face lying about his acclimation and his clam purchases over the past month. See, I not only know the people he bought clams from ..... it so happens I actuality built the clam house facility in question a few years ago while visiting Los Angeles and am well aware of when and who he purchased clams from. I even know the bunny which lives in the back yard of this clam farm importer. {intimately}
Barry has had no real idea who Kalkbreath is or how well connected I am in this business when he jumped into this thread.
But now he does.
For some one to come on here and aggrandize his acclimation procedures while sullying mine when I full well know he sells clams the next feaken day after he buys them from my uncle .....is cracking me up.

Sorry, but this just didnt sit well with me.

Once again I ask... How does this help our current situation?!!! I really don't think any of us give a rats a$$ right now where he gets his clams, we can't put any in our tanks anyway!!! They'll most likely die!!!


Big D

*sigh* I believe this has gone on long enough. Competition between retailers is hard enough to deal with on its own and using the forums as a weapon is even worse.
We've closed more threads in the past month due to things getting out of hand than we've EVER had to combined. It's really getting out of control and quite unnecessary.

Closing this one as well. Any further bantering can be taken to Private messages.