This one's spawning out of a thread I didn't want to clutter up. Here's what I think I know about bacteria boosting and tank cycling products. Most are a blend of Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter. If you want to know which ones they are, pick up any bottle that isn't Seachem Stability or Marineland Biospira. As always, correct me if I'm wrong(hint: Tom Wyatt :))

Nitrosomonas eats NH3/NH4. Nitrobacter eats NO2. And christ don't ask me the strains that eat NO3, as that's where it gets REALLY complicated and based on environmental conditions. Both of those bacterium are very stable and have a shelf life of years in a preserved state and this is the reason they make up the majority of tank cycling products. An interesting aside is that both of these strains can be killed by elevated levels of ammonia. More on that later.

This is where we enter the controversy. Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are classifed as soil bacteria, not aquatic bacteria. This leads to:

Biospira by Marineland
It was created based on reasearch done by Marineland. According to them, they spent 8 years looking for evidence of Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter in the aqaurium and said they couldn't find it. They did, however, find Nitrospira, and got the patent for it.

Now for what I think I know, according to many discussion with industry reps. When it first came out they had supply problems because entire batches of the stuff would crash on them, because of how unstable it actually is. They can't preserve it in a dry state, which is why it has to be refridgerated. If it freezes it dies, if it warms up, it eats all of its carbohydrates inside the bag and dies. It's said that it also has a very high atrition rate when it hits the water. It's not going to hurt your aquarium, by I can't say how much it will help. My freshwater test of it was a near disaster.

When asked about Nitrosomonas/Nitrobacter based products, Marineland's response was along the lines of, 'While those strains my temporarily live in an aquarium and consume ammonia and nitrite while alive, they will not colonize." They allow for the consumption of toxins while the actual strains have a chance to colonize. I have neither the tools nor the ability to dispute this, and it was told to me by someone trying to get me to buy a fridge full of the stuff. Enter Seachem.

Seachem Stablility
I think this is one of the most well thought out products in a long time. They won't tell us exactly what's in it, but I can't blame them on this one. The blend they use first contains a strain that will not colonize in an aquarium, but does rapidly consume NH3/NH4 and flourishes in high ammonia. It isn't killed by high levels of ammonia as nitrosomonas is, allowing other strains to colonize. It also contains a nitrite consuming bacteria, presumably nitrobacter, and in addition, scavenging anerobic bacteria to consume NO3 and feed on detritus.

It can be used in NH3/NO2/NO3 emergancies as well as an aid to degunk your live rock and sand bed. Very cool stuff. It also has a much longer shelf life than any other similiar product.

Two others that should be lumped in here are Stress Zyme by API and Marine S.A.T. by Aquatic Biocontrol. Stress Zyme is an enzyme that breaks down organic sludge/detritus. It's intended to clean off your biological media so that it can be recolonized by bacteria. Marine S.A.T. is bacteria meant to consume detritus to help contorl NO3 and cyanobacteria.

Good read!

Seachem Stablility
I think this is one of the most well thought out products in a long time.

Well, Danny, I think we've finally hit on something we can agree upon.

Yes, a good read indeed, and I've learned a few things.

Concerning Stability... I've always been a bit skeptical about "bacterial" additives and such - because I really don't subscribe to the "quick fix" mentality. This hobby is about patience, after all.

I will relay a story about Stability that made me a "believer"...

Shortly after the product was introduced, a Seachem rep provided me with a sample bottle, which I put in the cupboard (refer back to my skepticism on the efficacy of such products).

One day I had a lady come in... about a week prior, she'd bought a 55-g tank from Petsmart, along with 40 fish. (Yep, 40 - that's not a typo)... they weren't all tiny fish either - she had quite an assortment - and not what I would likely recommend for a "community" tank - but OK...

So I tested the water, and of course it was putrid. She found me because she knew she needed to do something - fish were gasping, clamped fins, the works.

I told her to take 35 of the fish back to the dealer she bought them from. Of course they wouldn't take them back (and I had FW at the time but I didn't want stressed and possibly ill fish in my system...)

So I remembered that bottle of Stability. I gave it to her. She followed the instructions for a "new" tank. I also had her change out about 30% of the water to at least dilute some of the toxins, and she used Prime to help bind up the toxins (again - not a "fix" but a half decent band-aid)...

2 WEEKS later, her water tested perfect. She did lose about 5 of the fish - the water was pretty ripe when she first came to me, but we saved the rest and I was quite impressed at how fast the water went from "septic tank" to just fine.

That made a believer out of me.

The product does have several good uses - including the ones Danny mentioned.

Jenn

I had a situation in one store where a girl who worked there left about 25 dead damsels in a 700 g system for just over a day (she worked back to back evening morning shifts) and didnt start to remove them until the afternoon shift person came in and asked why there were 25 dead fish. After testing the water the ammonia was through the roof and the trites were elevated as well. We dosed stability and prime in large amounts and within a few hours the levels were down and the fish were breathing more normally than before. I swear by stability after seeing what it did on a 700 g system.

Good read and they all sound pretty natural. I will have to set up some test tanks and try them out.
Chris c

I think I might lean toward the Seachem if I was going to use one of the two.
Chris

Danny, here is my concern,

Biospira has the ability to colonize, will they not compete for food in the system with other beneficial bacterias thus possibly starving the bacteria that came in on the liverock or within the sand?

I feel as though all the bacteria which is needed in a reef tank are already there and provided by mother nature, and all generated when the tank is cycled.

At best, i can see that using a product such as these would only be a temporary fix to rectify a solution for high nutrient levels...

In emergencys we do what we have to do. It is just my opinion that these products be used only then. If you see issues arising then find solutions such as reducing fish load, fedding schedule, removal of manmade filter products ie.bioballs, biowheels, add a refugium to your system, increase flow and or change direction of flow, slow down the amount of H2O through the sump, get your macros rolling etc.


All that being said, I do not carry but one of the above mentioned products and that is Stability. And it is strictly because it will allow other strains to continue to colonize. I have always recomended this product a month or so after the cycle or when people have tried my other options.

danny, here is my concern,

biospira has the ability to colonize, will they not compete for food in the system with other beneficial bacterias thus possibly starving the bacteria that came in on the liverock or within the sand?

I feel as though all the bacteria which is needed in a reef tank are already there and provided by mother nature, and all generated when the tank is cycled.

At best, i can see that using a product such as these would only be a temporary fix to rectify a solution for high nutrient levels...

In emergencys we do what we have to do. It is just my opinion that these products be used only then. If you see issues arising then find solutions such as reducing fish load, fedding schedule, removal of manmade filter products ie.bioballs, biowheels, add a refugium to your system, increase flow and or change direction of flow, slow down the amount of h2o through the sump, get your macros rolling etc.


All that being said, i do not carry but one of the above mentioned products and that is stability. And it is strictly because it will allow other strains to continue to colonize. I have always recomended this product a month or so after the cycle or when people have tried my other options.

+1

Danny, here is my concern,

Biospira has the ability to colonize, will they not compete for food in the system with other beneficial bacterias thus possibly starving the bacteria that came in on the liverock or within the sand?

Take into account that Marineland says they found Nitrospira living naturally in the aquarium, and based their culture on that. They'd be competing for the same food to accomplish the same thing, so I don't see what the issue is. It's like driving a Honda Civic instead of a Nissan Sentra with the only the concernable result being reaching the destination. You're going to get there either way.

The processes of the bacteria listed aren't so complex that there are multiple byproducts of their biological activity. It really is as simple as NH3->NO2->NO3 in this case.

Fair enough. I might just look a liitle further at this product, sure wish they would porduce some scientific data supporting their claims as SeaChem did with there 10 years of research.

Is it also fact that many (instant cycle) products can create hydrogen sulfide as a byproduct? If so which ones that you know of create this issue?

Hydrogen sulfide can only be produced in anerobic states by the bacterial breakdown of inorganic matter containing sulfiltes.

I would think that if you have an excess of the right condition it can increase production of H2S already occuring should the introduced bacteria, if in the product, come into contact with the proper medium for growth. So, maybe.

As far as Nitrospira research, here's a light read:

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/1/258?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=%B5g&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=640&resourcetype=HWFIG

Ok, so help me get some clarification.......please.

I dose carbon (vodka) in order to get certain strains of bacteria to proliferate and eat my trates & phates.

I have a 55. I have 2 fuges. My 4 inch sand bed is super "text" book healthy. My 75 pounds of live rock is full of purple sponges and everything else.

So say Chris finally gives me a quote, and I get a new starfire 75. I just want to move the stuff in the 55, over to the 75. I will be buying "live" sand to supplement.

I have a few very, very, very sensitive livestock. A pair of pipefish that are like 2.5 years old, leopard wrasse, urchins, brittle-stars, shrimp, and SPS corals.

What would YOU put in YOUR tank during this transition and, most importantly, why? Thanks!

Ralph

I've tried different miracle cycle bacterias for years with not any luck. Years ago 20 to 30 that is it would take me 13 weeks (no matter what I did) to cycle a salt tank. I have now found my way to cycle a tank in about 2 weeks. Use established live rock. I started with about 60 lbs in my 72gal and petsmart live sand, about 40 lbs. The live rock was from an ARC member who was breaking down his tank (over 3 years old). Tank cycled in a week. I just set up a 20 gal. Used about 10 lbs of live rock from an established tank and it cycled in 1 1/2 weeks. As far as I'm concerned I found my magic bullet to cycle salt tanks.

I have used Amquel plus for an amonia spike because of garbage salt used for a water change. It bound the amonia and let me get some decent salt to do a 40% change and rectify the problem.

Ralph,

If I had any that I listed on hand, I would use any of them. None of them can harm your tank, even when overdosed. My preference would be Seachem Stability. You're going to stir up trapped detritus when you move your rocks and sand. Because of that, Seachem's product fits the profile of your need. The only drawback I can fathom in an overdose would be death of the excess bacteria, though it would have to be a substantial amount for it to even pop up on the radar of our test kits.

In the case of an NH3/NO2 spike I couple it with the use of Prime, Safe, Amquel, or any other Sodium thiosulfate based dechlorinators to detoxify(up to 48hrs.) the NH3/NO2 while the bacteria has a chance on consume it.

I wouldn't use any of these products as my excuse for doing something i.e. overstocking, sloppy job moving inhabitants, stocking too fast. They make great tools, however, when used in the right conditions.

I would err on the side of caution, so thanks for the info. It looks like prime & stability would be useful. I have never moved from 1 tank to another, so that's been kinda stressing me out a bit.
Thanks!

Question,
I'm making live rock in a few weeks. I'm going to soak it the appropriate amount of time to give the PH time to level out. After that, I was going to use one of these pre-packaged bacteria to seed this rock. I was thinking about Prodibio Digest just to seed the bacteria, and not expecting it to cure it.

Would this be advisable or just a waste of money?

Brightwell, Zeovit, and Prodibio all have similar bacteria products. Brightwell makes Microbacter7, Prodibio makes Bio-Digest, and then there is Zeobac. I'm not a fan of the brightwell stuff, but the Prodibio and Zeovit bacteria is superior to all the competing products out there IMO and they also have carbon sources for food to promote their proliferation.

Question,
I'm making live rock in a few weeks. I'm going to soak it the appropriate amount of time to give the PH time to level out. After that, I was going to use one of these pre-packaged bacteria to seed this rock. I was thinking about Prodibio Digest just to seed the bacteria, and not expecting it to cure it.

Would this be advisable or just a waste of money?

It's tough to say because I don't know what's in Digest. If you're putting it in a tank with live sand or other live rock, it will seed itself rather quickly, given oxygen, water flow, and a food source.

If you were adding it to a new tank while adding live stock at the same time, I would use any of those products to keep the NH3 and NO2 in check while the entire faculty of bacteria has a chance to establish itself. This is one of the cases where you have to trust the mantra of the company making the product.


edit: After reading up on Biodigest it appears to work in a very similiar function to Seachem Stability. I'd base your decision on cost and convenience. If you don't mind pouring a little vodka in your tank to boost you carbon level, you may come out with the same result at a lower price. I'll see if I can't dig up what's in Stability.

I use prime and stability, and stressguard. I really like stability, I could have had fish in the tank during the cycle with this stuff!!!

Update:

Is it also fact that many (instant cycle) products can create hydrogen sulfide as a byproduct? If so which ones that you know of create this issue?

Unlike competing products, the bacteria employed by Stability™ are non-sulfur fixing and will not produce toxic hydrogen sulfide. -Seachem

It also looks like no microbiologist out there wants to figure out what's in it and Seachem's MSDS didn't list it.

great info here! great thread Danny.

great info here! great thread Danny.


+1 !!

I'm impressed with the Prodibio products and have used them extensively. Bio-Digest has been helping keep most parameters in line.

I too am looking to seed some base rock trying to turn it live but Prodibio is so costly. Looking to see what comes of this discussion and the Seachem products. Thanx Danny.:up:

I am curious as to what would take place if one was using these products on a regular basis (which is what I have seen recomended) and discontinues the use of it. How would a system respond? Any experiences not including the product Stabilty.