View Full Version : So is the future of Reef Lighting?


dough
04-25-2009, 9:42 PM
It seem pretty darn cool to me. And if those numbers are real then they may have something here.

http://www.reefbuilders.com/2009/04/14/sunbrite-lighting-system-rethinking-implement-aquarium-leds/

It seems like many of here on ARC are just catching up to T5's including me. I was just wondering what you light heads think........

sailfish
04-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Hey if its cheaper and they can get by the patent I am all for it.

Joe

ace1204
04-25-2009, 10:13 PM
sweet, and wow those prices are awesome. Could it be?

dough
04-25-2009, 10:19 PM
Several people commented that they are already using them. I would think one lamp would be enough to at least add shimmer on a T5 tank. Over in the SPS forum in the SPS are I found a guy running them on his tank. It's been a while since he's posted so I wonder if they worked long term or not.

ares
04-25-2009, 10:21 PM
ya know, they have the par meter there... they have the numbers.

and yet... I just cant figure out the math. it doesnt add up. the wattage and the par, it exceeds the best numbers ever acheived by LEDs.

the guy was banned off reefcentral. and Ive never seen any 3rd party testing of it.

LEDs are the future, but it will be in the direction of the solaris I think, power LEDs are more efficient, thats why they are used. 5mm LEDs are cheap, but they dont do so great at efficiency(compared to power LEDs, MH, and T5)

WILLIAM1
04-25-2009, 10:22 PM
Heres a link to a thread Ive looked at before there quite expensive.
http://www.reefbuilders.com/forums/equipment/12181-final-led-set-up-120gal.html

Harleyguy
04-25-2009, 11:26 PM
The LED stuff is very very cool, but did anyone catch the video on the new Neptune systems APEX controller... Man this this looks awsome... and under $500... I can't wait, I'm getting it as soon as it comes out...

weaglereefer
04-25-2009, 11:35 PM
The LED stuff is very very cool, but did anyone catch the video on the new Neptune systems APEX controller... Man this this looks awsome... and under $500... I can't wait, I'm getting it as soon as it comes out...

Yup, looks like a rip off of Digital Aquatics' Reefkeeper Elite...



On the LEDs, I used to use a car underbody LED kit (got for $40). The 4 bars had probably 200 LEDs total. Never took any par readings, but they could be dimmed for moonlighting, could be turned 7 colors, and the fish never seemed to mind when I was in the mood for a purple, green, or red tank.

ares
04-25-2009, 11:42 PM
looks like a replacement for the ACIII,

the screen is much nicer, but I really want the software, hopefully they offer it as an update to the existing ACIII webserver. I heard a few months back that it would get an update to the webserver, hope thats it

ares
04-25-2009, 11:43 PM
Yup, looks like a rip off of Digital Aquatics' Reefkeeper Elite...


but with control that works :p

Harleyguy
04-25-2009, 11:45 PM
Yup, looks like a rip off of Digital Aquatics' Reefkeeper Elite...


I'm sure that's where they got the idea, but it has one thing that the Reefkeeper doesn't... a web-server to control the system remotely... Also I think with the larger screen it must be easier to set up and use.

Oil_Fan
04-26-2009, 9:26 AM
It's interesting, that's for sure. And the idea of upgrading my lighting for $200 is nice. I am curious about the comment about Orbitech’s patent. Time to break out Google.

Oil_Fan
04-26-2009, 10:09 AM
Found some info. It turns out Orbitec sued PFO for making and marketing a LED light system for aquariums. Orbitec filed for a patent (http://www.google.com/patents?id=mwWAAAAAEBAJ&dq=marine+aquarium+LED) back in 2004 (Google has a search engine for patents! lol) and one was issued in 2007 for LED lightng system for a "marine habitat having an open top".

PFO was eventually forced out of business. I didn't see anything though that it was the lawsuit that directly caused that.

Now the problem with that patent appears to be that there are variuos posts to doing a DIY LED systems on a number of forums dating back to 2002 (http://www.reefs.org/forums/topic17426.html). That would predate the patent filing and could be cause to invalidate it. The problem comes with challenging such a patent is that it costs big $$$. The only non-profit group that I know of that does this, is the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They've been known to take on bogus patent filings.

What's I really don't get is that Orbitec (http://www.orbitec.com/) isn't even in the hobby. They're an areospace company. They have yet to actually make an LED lighting system. In fairness though they say they'll start selling one this spring. We'll see.

ares
04-26-2009, 10:34 AM
yep, this was a big story a month or 2 back.

orbitec has to actually sue.

personally I think this sunbrite company is perpetrating some sort of scam. and by that I mean manipulating the par meter or some other parameter to get false readings.

in the vid, I do not SEE 300 par, the tank looks quite dim to me based on the naked eye.

here is the most efficient LED on the market(read as, not those lol)

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k318/jtr1962/CPF/Cree_7090_XR-E_bin_R2.gif

so in the reasonable range for it, about 90lumens/watt. 70 watts of power to the unit, is 6300 lumens. and 5mm LEDs which those are, the math adds up for the wattage. typically see close to 40-50lumens/watt, not 90. but whatever, give them the benefit of the doubt anyway.

now lumens to par gets mighty jumbled. but suffice it to say that a 250w halide puts out about 15000 lumen over a 2 foot span. MH puts out a lot of IR and UV which is counted as lumens but not par, blah blah blah.

over a 4foot span we are talking 30000 lumens vs 6300 lumen over 4 feet and higher par? *sniff sniff* something smells fishy and its not my tank.

just isnt passing my BS-O-Meter. and might I mention again, there was a huge thread on RC about this lighting, and the guy backing it would never address my, and many others, concerns about the numbers not making sense. he was finally banned from the forum, though Im unsure as to why. I think it may have been because he was marketing a product and not a sponsor.

ares
04-26-2009, 10:37 AM
oh yeah, solaris, an accepted LED light that atleast "works", if not quite super bright, it supports a reef. they used 75watts of those LEDs pictured in the graph, PER FOOT. thats 25 3w LEDs, per foot.

sunbrite is using 1/4th the wattage with LEDs that are a good half as efficient. and AFAIK, the solaris did not put 300par 24" deep.

ONE more thing, they are also running like 4 or 5 non day light bulbs? and 300 par? come on now....

Amici
04-26-2009, 1:57 PM
I am 99% sure that is the price for JUST the fixture and then each bulb is 120-180 each....Ill agree with Ares that the numbers dont add up, however that is a TON of freaking LEDs per strip. Someone on here will pick one of these up so we will just have to wait and see. Go Shane Go!

ares
04-26-2009, 3:00 PM
it is a ton of LEDs. I got a bag of them sitting next to me, 1000 LEDs, actually thats the white, I have 500 blue I think... paid like 25$ for them straight from hong kong. 5mm LEDs are cheap cheap. just didnt put out enough light. and I tried... I had a PCB board packed full of them. about 100 or so I got wired up. pretty bright, till you compared it to a MH lolkeychainflashlight.

Amici
04-26-2009, 3:15 PM
it is a ton of LEDs. I got a bag of them sitting next to me, 1000 LEDs, actually thats the white, I have 500 blue I think... paid like 25$ for them straight from hong kong. 5mm LEDs are cheap cheap. just didnt put out enough light. and I tried... I had a PCB board packed full of them. about 100 or so I got wired up. pretty bright, till you compared it to a MH lolkeychainflashlight.

Good, use those to make me a fixture for an 16g bow softie tank :)

ares
04-26-2009, 3:18 PM
it probably could have lit a nano fairly well...

I was having fits with the wiring of it though, the LEDs werent pulling the same current so some were brighter than others, then some burned out because they were getting overdriven as a result... what a PITA :p

small arrays are easy to work with, but large ones need more active current driving, which I lack the know how to provide. :(