I would like to revisit this topic. If it has been discussed and decided on recently, I apologize and if someone can point me in the direction of the minutes/discussion I appreciate it. I think that it would be reasonable to cap non members at 250 posts. This is plenty of time to get used to the club and would prevent the free riders, many whom have a bad attitude, from leaching off the club. People who come on to offload stuff will still be able to access the site and post without problems. If they need more than 250 posts to sell something then they will have enough money to throw the club $30 not much unlike ebay fees. If someone wants to be a member of the club and contribute then thats great. I dont see the need to have long term moochers. I am just curious on opinions on this topic and I want this to be a CIVIL CONVERSATION. Thanks.

Should be in the September BoD minutes... We have a few things we are going to be break out in the near future.

Ok sounds like there is already dialogue ongoing with it so as long as its at the attention of the BOD im happy.

I'm a poor college student and I coughed up the $30. That was easily 90-100 beers I gave up, talk about opportunity cost!

I'm a poor college student and I coughed up the $30. That was easily 90-100 beers I gave up, talk about opportunity cost!

Me too. Part of the reason I see these people who arent members and it irks me. My fish eat shrimp and I eat easy mac and ramen! Dont get me wrong, I love me some easy mac but still.

Haha, I can make gourmet ramen.

Seriously, if $30 is too much, you probably don't need a reef tank anyways.

People who come on to offload stuff will still be able to access the site and post without problems. If they need more than 250 posts to sell something then they will have enough money to throw the club $30 not much unlike ebay fees....

If it's non-members buying/selling stuff after 250+ posts, then why not just restrict them from posting in the FS section. There's no reason they can't still contribute to reef discussions.

I would like to revisit this topic. If it has been discussed and decided on recently, I apologize and if someone can point me in the direction of the minutes/discussion I appreciate it. I think that it would be reasonable to cap non members at 250 posts. This is plenty of time to get used to the club and would prevent the free riders, many whom have a bad attitude, from leaching off the club. People who come on to offload stuff will still be able to access the site and post without problems. If they need more than 250 posts to sell something then they will have enough money to throw the club $30 not much unlike ebay fees. If someone wants to be a member of the club and contribute then thats great. I dont see the need to have long term moochers. I am just curious on opinions on this topic and I want this to be a CIVIL CONVERSATION. Thanks.

I agree, it does breed anymosity. Kinda like being in a right to work state. Some are union members and some are not. The ones that dont pay still get all the same benefits. Employers love GA because of this. On that note I guess I should renew my membership <-- im just to lazy and forgot the password to my paypal acct.:doh:

Oh lordy, Chris is back! :) Lock up the women and hide the booze or viceversa!

Anyways, we may also be driving away a lot of people with such a hardline approach. So I'm a lil concerned with it although at one time I supported it wholeheartedly. In addition, there are a bunch of non-members or former members that add to the club in a positive way like Cgill here.

I agree, but an issue that could come up. expired memberships that people are "getting around to". Can there be a hold over lapse or is that too difficult?

I'll renew my membership once I start my new tank after the move.

I'll probably be the longest-distance member from Oklahoma. :D

All that has been discussed... Such a suggestion is currently not up for discussion by the BoD. The topic was discussed at the September BoD meeting, I believe, and some decisions were made that have yet to be put into place. So do not make me work in my last 15 days!!! I am warning ya'll!!! ;)

Take the subject up with Raj next year!!!

stick brought up an interested question. mine is about to run out and one of my christmas presents is to renew. just gotta get to it. i agree with the poor kids above. i thought hmm $30 could buy a couple of cool frags.. but the information and generosity of this group has far surpassed 30 and im glad i joined. i dont know why others dont. i feel like paying 30 is the least i could do

Between a deal on a pump from Brandon, a deal on a heater, a deal on a filter bracket, a couple deals on lights I'm working on, and some free coral frags, I've easily got my $30 worth.

Most people have an automatic renewal so the "lapse time" isnt even an issue unless you are just simply to lazy to renew. Which in that case this will be a nice swift little kick to hurry someone along and prevent them from saying "oh well I was going to renew but now....." Dont hold a membership over the clubs head like its a parent giving a new toy to a kid for good behavior. Thats just absurd and Ive seen it happen a few times.

instead of a post count how about doing a 1 month free trial for all forum posting or viewing? Then if they want to sell or buy they are free to do so until a month is up, then the forum would lock. If a membership expires the 1 month free trial would begin

A post count isn't good because I know people on some forums that will only post once a week but with a timed trial it doesn't matter

I think dawgdude must be making a commission off getting people to renew or sign up. I have seen him stress this topic in the past. He must be getting some type of kickback??

instead of a post count how about doing a 1 month free trial for all forum posting or viewing? Then if they want to sell or buy they are free to do so until a month is up, then the forum would lock. If a membership expires the 1 month free trial would begin

A post count isn't good because I know people on some forums that will only post once a week but with a timed trial it doesn't matter

That makes more sense than a post count limit.... that is if we end up going this route.

I think this is a "mute" point. Maybe it's in the bod notes.

the notes are in there.

I really don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over non members.

many (if not most) non-members are great. I guess it's the small group that refuse to pay even though they sell and make money here, have 2,000 posts, are always telling how the club should run, etc, that make it an issue.

many (if not most) non-members are great. I guess it's the small group that refuse to pay even though they sell and make money here, have 2,000 posts, are always telling how the club should run, etc, that make it an issue.

Exactly. It's obvious that people care about this club on different levels. Some are here to only take advantage of it on one extreme, and some run for office or moderate and give up their free time to make it thrive.

I'm a poor college student and I coughed up the $30. That was easily 90-100 beers I gave up, talk about opportunity cost!

Just offset the cost by giving plasma at the local bloodbank. You can easily earn enough beer money for the week and it makes you a cheap drunk!

Me too. Part of the reason I see these people who arent members and it irks me. My fish eat shrimp and I eat easy mac and ramen! Dont get me wrong, I love me some easy mac but still.

Ramen...a little ketup, spices and you have a gourmet meal!


As for non-members....IMHO people will join if they want. I think we should make it more advantageous to join, but not pressure anyone to join. We are part of ARC to share knowledge and enjoy the company of people with the same love for the SW hobby. I could see an issue if we were having a tough time keeping ARC afloat. But we aren't. Knowledge is free...all the other stuff; sales, buying, PM's, uploading pictures, etc. shouldn't be.

We are part of ARC to share knowledge and enjoy the company of people with the same love for the SW hobby. I could see an issue if we were having a tough time keeping ARC afloat. But we aren't. Knowledge is free...all the other stuff; sales, buying, PM's, uploading pictures, etc. shouldn't be.

Agreed 100 million percent. Advertising for a sale of goods is a premium on this site. That is why the sponsors have to offer a discount. it is the tradeoff. Yet, for individuals, no go. They can sell everything they want without investing a thing into the club.

I have no issue helping a non member learn about this hobby. However, I will personally draw the line at someone who bashes the club, or gives reasons why the cant or wont join. They do not get my "services" after that.

The only point I disagree about is the issue of "keeping the club afloat". Who here has looked at our budget? Who knows what we need and dont need to operate? For example, how cheap was it to get all the speakers, raffle items, etc etc etc this year for the club? Everyone fixates on web hosting costs, and domain name costs. What about meeting rental fees, membership card printing fees, amonst the other costs I explained earlier? Eeven if we were flush this year, what about the next and the next and the next. Do we have to be broke before we start trying to preserve the club?

Personally I think non members get WAY too many luxuries from our club. The only disadvantages they have gotten were to pay for the social events. But other than that, they can do everything a paying, supporting member of the club.

As has been said, though, this has been addressed by the BOD, and a plan is in action, so it is a moot point.

I'm a poor college student and I coughed up the $30. That was easily 90-100 beers I gave up, talk about opportunity cost!

:eek: $.30 a beer!?...I'm scared to see what you drink!:yuk:

Hooray for those who still want me here!

Hooray for those who still want me here!


Who are you?:D

Hooray for those who still want me here!
I want you to join and stay here.

Who are you?:D
I'm the guy who only parks his car on the lawn.

I want you to join and stay here.
Sounds like an army recruiter I met right out of high school. :)

I understand the club need funds to survive, but how about if you are a minor and have no money ( some people have no job right now, and some people is just play broke) Make them do something for the public, go clean a creek, help on a elder home, help a single mommy, do something on the animal rescue on your county. I'm not rich in any way, but I'm willing to make a small donation to have some of those kids who love the sw dream and have no money. about the old more mature guys, them we talk about it.
We are acting like a country club and we're not. I promisse my wife I will start be more involved in a couse helping kids and animals. maybe I'm starting right here.

I believe that non-members should not be limited by posts. One good example came up recently when bkr1997 posted pics of his tank and contributed to us greatly. He lives in Chattanooga (and maybe supports a club up that way) and does not post here often, but when he did, it was refreshing and beneficial. I would hate to think that he would have been denied that because he wasnt paying the annual membership fee. Same way with Mark (meleev) Gary Parr and other visitors (whether notable in the reef community or not).

But I do agree that excuses to not join are pretty stupid. The discount alone pays for your membership very quickly, and if you have no job or 30 bucks to join the club, I really doubt you should be spending any money at all on your tank. There obviously are exceptions, but overall you can not say you have no cash to join, yet you still maintain a reef tank somehow. I would rather people be staright up and just say "I do not want to join" not "I'm soooo poor I have no money. Oh, you have a candycane coral for $15? I'll take it"

Anyways, i guess my point above way that I for one am pleased with the current club setup. We do have the occasional disturbances, but overall I am very proud and happy with how things are going, or else I would not be on here as often as I am.

We are acting like a country club and we're not.

We are a private club. We offer access to the forums for free to give people a taste of what this club has to offer. Get a free round of golf from a country club and see if you weren't just offered it to convince you to join.

No one here is against helping people in need, but we do have to draw the line somewhere. Allowing someone to have 500+, 1000+, 2000+, etc., posts without paying for membership devaules the membership.

Consider this. I don't have an aquarium. I didn't have one when I payed for my membership. Technically, I should have a membership via two companies that are sponsers of the ARC. I would still pay for my membership. I believe in what this club stands for, and for the most part I enjoy the time I spend here. The only way I benefit from the membership is not having to pay for club events and I get a cute little logo under my avatar.

I feel that through my experience and knowledge, I bring a lot to this club. If you're new, you'll get it for free. If you have a high post count and are not a paid member, you won't.

Good point Danny

Well said danny

I just feel we have sooooo much anymosity, we scaring people away. I'm new, I'm here for just 6 months. I love the club and I learn a lot, but sometimes we have people here with a dry humor,and I think if everybody was familiar with faces and were friends noproblem. But we don't and sometimes a joke sounds like a insult, or people think everybody should know everything or you don't deserve to be here. we need to easy up...!!! how about we give up one membership per month for the best new member. Or for someone who's willing to prove to be a good kid. Have a good atitude and so on.
Let's be more friendly that's it.

Why do some people want to be an 'active' part (the forums) in something they truly don't want to belong to (the club) ? Makes no sense to me.

I really don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over non members.


Exactly,

I am not a member, but for my own reasons. I will never be able to make it to any meetings, I am not here to personally profit by selling anything, and I have actually spent plenty of money on items from other members. I just gradated from college, have no job and no money, and now going back to grad school so believe it or not $30 does mean something to me.

I am here to learn, not necessarily to be in a "club". What I dont understand is that this forum is really caught up in who is and who is not a member and so much so that threads just like this make new people feel unwanted.

Even if you had a post limit im sure there would be threads along these lines complaining about non-members that havent paid yet and im sure that will turn a lot of people away.

By doing or wanting to turn the forum into some super ellite club that only paying members can access will drive down new memberships and leave you with the same group of freinds and members there currrently are. To me that seems rediculous and leaves a wide open hole for anyone else to create a NON paying forum where people feel welcomed.

+1

+++++1
Exactly,

I am not a member, but for my own reasons. I will never be able to make it to any meetings, I am not here to personally profit by selling anything, and I have actually spent plenty of money on items from other members. I just gradated from college, have no job and no money, and now going back to grad school so believe it or not $30 does mean something to me.

I am here to learn, not necessarily to be in a "club". What I dont understand is that this forum is really caught up in who is and who is not a member and so much so that threads just like this make new people feel unwanted.

Even if you had a post limit im sure there would be threads along these lines complaining about non-members that havent paid yet and im sure that will turn a lot of people away.

By doing or wanting to turn the forum into some super ellite club that only paying members can access will drive down new memberships and leave you with the same group of freinds and members there currrently are. To me that seems rediculous and leaves a wide open hole for anyone else to create a NON paying forum where people feel welcomed.

Why do some people want to be an 'active' part (the forums) in something they truly don't want to belong to (the club) ? Makes no sense to me.

EXACTLY!

Fish, there are "non-paying" forums and they're far from friendly. I implore you to check them out.

By your statements, you are here to take from the club. You want to benefit from those who support the club, yet you do not want to contribute. That's a poor excuse. If you don't want to join the club, that's fine; but I just fail to understand how you can not want to.

Brazillian-giving away memberships will only devalue the membership. How much is something worth when you can get it for free? We should not be rewarding somebody for acting the way that they should anyway.

To those who come to the meetings, use the forums, sell your items here and still choose not to join...no excuses.

I'm just someone who like a good comon ground... I think where is a will it's a way.
But just to make it clear I'M HAPPY PAYING MEMBER.

well said! i think a post limit would be a bad idea. maybe the non-members not being able to sell stuff is a good idea, but we should deff be able to buy. taking that away would be taking $ away from the member-sellers.

I agree with that... non-members no sell or buy, you can talk but have no acces to for sale trade forum, or limited the accesses for some parts of the forum... just give them a taste not to hole cake.

I'd rather see a post restriction (but very generous like 1000) instead of limiting sales of personal items. Some people log on soley to sell... Good examples include people that are getting out of the hobby, or have been out a while and are selling residual equipment. These often are good deals on things members would like to purchase.

... I think where is a will it's a way...

Exactly. You have to WANT to join!

ok... lets do 500 posts. I just realized I'm here for 6 months and I have 420 ...500 should be good enought to have a taste for what are you getting in to.

EXACTLY!

Fish, there are "non-paying" forums and they're far from friendly. I implore you to check them out.

By your statements, you are here to take from the club. You want to benefit from those who support the club, yet you do not want to contribute. That's a poor excuse. If you don't want to join the club, that's fine; but I just fail to understand how you can not want to.

Brazillian-giving away memberships will only devalue the membership. How much is something worth when you can get it for free? We should not be rewarding somebody for acting the way that they should anyway.

To those who come to the meetings, use the forums, sell your items here and still choose not to join...no excuses.

What am I TAKING from the club that is so valuable that you have to get so protective about? Information? That can be found anywhere my friend. I dont attend meetings or cost the club a single penny in any way.

If anything I have put more money into your club by buying items from paying members.

This is what I was referring to, the animosity towards new people.

Exactly. You have to WANT to join!


If the pres wasn't such a "Neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie" I'd join....:confused2:

Dang..already did.:doh:

Can any non members who has posted in this thread give a LEGITIMATE reason they have not joined? If yuo are going to claim "I dont have $30", be sure I wont find a post of yours where you are buying livestock. "Personal reasons" is a red herring. If you have personal reasons for not supporting the club, then this should include not participating. "Not going to meetings"- nonsense. Both members and non-members can go to meetings. "Can't use the discounts"- neither can I, I live at least 90 minutes friom any sponsor. But what does that have to do with these forums?

SO, what are they? As it has been stated, the only reason I see is because you want to take without giving abck TO THE CLUB. Yeah, you may help you friend, or buddy, or neighbor with their aquarium, but what does this have to do with this club, this forum, anything?

Derek, funny you brought up some of those people who were not close. As it is , both Melev and Gary Parr ARE members, as far as my records show. Even they understand the purpoose of support.

congrats everyone... very civil and polity. I like the way this tread is going.

What am I TAKING from the club that is so valuable that you have to get so protective about? Information? That can be found anywhere my friend. I dont attend meetings or cost the club a single penny in any way.

If anything I have put more money into your club by buying items from paying members.

This is what I was referring to, the animosity towards new people.

So, then, as politely as I can say, why are you here? If everything you learn and can teach can just be found somewhere else, why spend your time typing on this forum?

What am I TAKING from the club that is so valuable that you have to get so protective about? Information? That can be found anywhere my friend. I dont attend meetings or cost the club a single penny in any way.

If anything I have put more money into your club by buying items from paying members.

This is what I was referring to, the animosity towards new people.

As a recent graduate from college, you should know that the resources that you are using are not free. They are provided by the membership. You choose to come here, it must be for a reason. If information can be found anywhere, why did you choose here? It's something more than just information, right?

There is no animosity towards new people. People who have thousands of posts certainly aren't new; they obviously like and use the club.

ok... lets do 500 posts. I just realized I'm here for 6 months and I have 420 ...500 should be good enought to have a taste for what are you getting in to.
FWIW, the BOD has already voted on a method os non members action. It will just need the suitable time to be implemented.

I didnt know Gary and Mark were members. Kind of them, and I apreciate their support and knowledge.

As a recent graduate from college, you should know that the resources that you are using are not free. They are provided by the membership. You choose to come here, it must be for a reason. If information can be found anywhere, why did you choose here? It's something more than just information, right?

There is no animosity towards new people. People who have thousands of posts certainly aren't new; they obviously like and use the club.

I am here because I found a local forum that had a common interest as me. I am completely new to the saltwater world and wanted to learn, so I found a this site, but it seems im not wanted here unless I pay up some money.

Reefcentral.com is a good one for learning. Prolly the best. I'm a member there too :).

This club is something more than just a place to gleen some knowledge. Granted we have some really experienced and smart people in this club and we always look to help each other out in that regard. There is more to it than just that though... This is your local reef club, the only one of consequence :) lol.

These are the people who you will meet face to face, develop relationships with, and come to lean upon. This is not an easy hobby and at times we all need some support. You are not going to get that from a faceless place like RC or any other site. They can't offer you that, we can and will... gladly!

In addition, a membership here pays for itself post haste. The discount alone will pay you back the 30 the minute you spend over 100 at M/F. Heck the spread at the x-mas party was fantastic and paid for the membership alone... that food was incredible and we all got prizes! It was a fun night out, and one of the first where we left our only child at home with a baby sitter. Not something we do lightly. Members also routinely give frags of value to other members for free. That's all financial though, and a smart person would join the club strictly from that point of view as your money will come right back to you many times over.

We're constantly trying to create more value for members as well. Perhaps, you're not seeing this place as anything but an online information source and fish based craigslist. If that's all it is to you then yah this isn't the forum for you. I guess its just not for everyone...

I dont think you are unwelcome. You have a relatively low post count and to my knowledge have not contributed any heartache or negativety to the club, so you are not in the target group they are talking about (persistent users that still do not give back after extended periods of time, or new users that just troll and pester members)

You are still very welcome.

Reef central is a good example of a place where you can learn a lot, but it is very difficult to have a personal relationship with teh member body.

Here the personal connection is much better, and over time, you develop a valuable relationship that you can almost never have at RC. RC really is just a forum, we are a club. Many members here will bend over backwards for other members in need of help or information. I like RC for certain purposes, but here is where the real connections and networking (hobby related and not) happens.

i do live like an hour from the nearest sponsor, can't ever make the meetings during the week, but still will eventually join. I have met a lot of great people both in person and online through this site without having to pay. that's what has convinced me to join. kinda as restitution...is laziness a good reason not to have joined yet:o)?
I don't think you should "force" anyone to join. I think that a person will join when they are ready....nobody is taking advantage of anybody. if member doesn't want to sell something to a nonmember, he shouldn't have to. but by the same accord, if a member doesn't care and just want's to help the guy out...wouldn't that help convince him how cool "The Club" is??

I am here because I found a local forum that had a common interest as me. I am completely new to the saltwater world and wanted to learn, so I found a this site, but it seems im not wanted here unless I pay up some money.


Fish..

Not for sure why you would think that. Non-members are always wanted here. Speaking for myself, I love to share my knowledge, limited compared to some, of reef keeping. It doens't matter to me who benefits from it, members/non-members. The only point that is being made is that the club is not a charity organization, it does take funds to run servers, bandwith, and provide no cost/low cost member events(meetings/partys) for everyone to enjoy. That take paying members to make it all happen. What everyone is forgeting here is that one of the jobs of the BoD is to increase membership, thus the strength and survival of ARC. In no way should anyone ever take it negatively that being a non-member is a bad thing. Just that being a member offers more!! Not only the 10% dicount (I have used it and my dues have been paid for several times over) but being part of something bigger than just being a casual hobbiest. This club does much more than people realize.....do some research and you will be amazed. Just my opinion....one has to look past the surface at times to see the good underneath!

Fish..

Not for sure why you would think that. Non-members are always wanted here. Speaking for myself, I love to share my knowledge, limited compared to some, of reef keeping. It doens't matter to me who benefits from it, members/non-members. The only point that is being made is that the club is not a charity organization, it does take funds to run servers, bandwith, and provide no cost/low cost member events(meetings/partys) for everyone to enjoy. That take paying members to make it all happen. What everyone is forgeting here is that one of the jobs of the BoD is to increase membership, thus the strength and survival of ARC. In no way should anyone ever take it negatively that being a non-member is a bad thing. Just that being a member offers more!! Not only the 10% dicount (I have used it and my dues have been paid for several times over) but being part of something bigger than just being a casual hobbiest. This club does much more than people realize.....do some research and you will be amazed. Just my opinion....one has to look past the surface at times to see the good underneath!

And I totally agree with you, I never said I will NEVER pay to join but only that I cant pay now, and to several people that wasnt good enough. If you look back at the previous post im sure you can see what I mean by not welcomed.

To add

The very first post puts us "non-members" in a bad light who most of us are "leachers, free riders, or bring bad attitudes."

And I totally agree with you, I never said I will NEVER pay to join but only that I cant pay now, and to several people that wasnt good enough. If you look back at the previous post im sure you can see what I mean by not welcomed.


I think the point if this thread is being miscontrued. This has been a re-occurring discussion thread...many times over. I think that there are those people that belive that if you get something you should give. I agree with that way of thinking but it should be in a positive way. Knowledge is always free...other benefits should cost a little. It's a privilage to join ARC...IMHO!

To add

The very first post puts us "non-members" in a bad light who most of us are "leachers, free riders, or bring bad attitudes."

Not directed at you Fish...just in general:


That goes back to my post in another thread....it's a simple choice if one doesn't like the way ARC is managed....

1)Run for BoD
2)Hit the little red "X" in the upper right coner of the window

Complaints from someone that doesn't support the board is negative input....complaints that come form a ARC member is a suggestion.

Enjoy the knowledge....keep the complaints/rants/etc to oneself.

:shout:

And I totally agree with you, I never said I will NEVER pay to join but only that I cant pay now, and to several people that wasnt good enough. If you look back at the previous post im sure you can see what I mean by not welcomed.

I cannot see why you would think that. No one has ever said, or even eluded to that. It is a leap that many non members make, when asked why they havent joined. This forum is a great place to come and learn. That is our claim. The issue being discussed here is not whether no members are welcome, but when does action of a non member merit the requirement of support of the club? Perhaps you can answer that question from the other side of the coin? In other words, what value does membership have?

As I mentioned, I have yet to hear a real suitable reason for not joining the club. If you dont want to join, that is your choice. But it absolutely does not make those who support the club elitist.

Again, to all non members, hwo do you support the club that supports you?

I would hate to think that he would have been denied that because he wasnt paying the annual membership fee. Same way with Mark (meleev) Gary Parr and other visitors (whether notable in the reef community or not).

FYI--both Mark and Gary are paid ARC members, not visitors....

To add

The very first post puts us "non-members" in a bad light who most of us are "leachers, free riders, or bring bad attitudes."

recently, that has been the case. Plain and simple, which is why this topic has reoccurred.

For clarification, in case some of you did not read the minutes from the September BOD meeting


Member Vs. Non-Member posts


Non paying members- what forum access should they have? Should posts be limited? Should they have sponsor forum access?
Idea to keep non members with access, but they will be subject to ads (ie- google ads once a post limit has been reached).
Decided to limit posts from non members from the sponsors section, disallow “creature comforts”, such as custom avatars, photos, etc, and subject to google ads once 100 posts have been reached.
AJ proposed, seconded by Brandon, agreed by majority.


I don't think this will decrease the input from the non-members. And I besides the non-sponsor section posting, I don't see making these changes until we do our site upgrade.

This may have already been discussed, but why not have two levels of membership? Could we offer a "full membership" with all the discount/club privleges and a say a discounted "Forum membership" for folks who live to far away to benfit from the sponsor discounts, etc. The forum membership could help cover the costs of maintaining the site, server costs, etc..the stuff we all pay for anyway to use the website and share knowledge. That might attract more of the remote reefers to join and pay the dues, then there would be no limit to the posts, etc. We already have a discounted student membership I think, so it must be a possibility.
Just a thought.

BZ

I like the idea Bob. That means its doomed to failure though... :)

That is a fantastic idea. Like a silver and gold membership that you see on other sites. makes perfect sense to me, but maybe the complications are over my pay-grade.

I dont think you are unwelcome. You have a relatively low post count and to my knowledge have not contributed any heartache or negativety to the club, so you are not in the target group they are talking about (persistent users that still do not give back after extended periods of time, or new users that just troll and pester members)

You are still very welcome.

That's my sentimnet exactly.

Fish- you're sitting there with 100+ posts. You're still fresh and new and none of this pressure is directed at you. I've known a tough $30 in my life, so I can respect your value of it.

This thread started after I voiced my opinion regarding jgilley84. A non-paid member, very active in the forum, asking for help after stating that he was glad he had not yet bought a membership, and that he wouldn't. He has over 1200 posts and only takes from the club. That irks me quite a bit.

You're very welcome in this club. Personally, I may have an issue with you if you hit 1200 posts, insult the paid members, and haven't bought in yet. I hope to never meet you at that bridge. I hope you decide to chip in the $30 if for nothing more than a 'Thanks!' to all the supporting memebers that have helped you.

P.S. Dr. Zoidberg is my favorite character from Futurama.

For clarification, in case some of you did not read the minutes from the September BOD meeting



I don't think this will decrease the input from the non-members. And I besides the non-sponsor section posting, I don't see making these changes until we do our site upgrade.
When are we doing the site upgrade?

This may have already been discussed, but why not have two levels of membership? Could we offer a "full membership" with all the discount/club privleges and a say a discounted "Forum membership" for folks who live to far away to benfit from the sponsor discounts, etc. The forum membership could help cover the costs of maintaining the site, server costs, etc..the stuff we all pay for anyway to use the website and share knowledge. That might attract more of the remote reefers to join and pay the dues, then there would be no limit to the posts, etc. We already have a discounted student membership I think, so it must be a possibility.
Just a thought.

BZ

We do allow a reciprocal membership for $5 for people that belong to other MASNA clubs with a similar dues structure. Some Chattanooga folks have taken advantage of that in the past.

if yall dont want us non members to post we can just got back to the sites we posted on before this one since we seem to be so much trouble.

This may have already been discussed, but why not have two levels of membership?
Just a thought.

BZ

Also, the $30 dues is simply the ante in order to play. No one in poker complains about the ante at the start of each hand, it is an assumption that this means that you voluntarily "bought into" the game. Others can observe the game, but you made the agreement to play. Pure and simple. If someone hung around a poker game for a bit to see if they liked it, no one would mind. However, if someone stayed all night without pitching in for the beer and munchies and did not play, you would have to ask why the heck did they come in the first place?

if yall dont want us non members to post we can just got back to the sites we posted on before this one since we seem to be so much trouble.

I don't think threating the membership is going to get you very far.

Also, the $30 dues is simply the ante in order to play. No one in poker complains about the ante at the start of each hand, it is an assumption that this means that you voluntarily "bought into" the game. Others can observe the game, but you made the agreement to play. Pure and simple. If someone hung around a poker game for a bit to see if they liked it, no one would mind. IHowever, if someone stayed all night without pitching in for the beer and munchies and did not play, you would have to ask why the heck did they come in the first place?
Great example!! +1 Steve

If I'm a non-member, I have to ask myself:

"If I try to log on tomorrow and the site is gone, would I miss it? Even a little?"

If the answer is YES (and it seems like it would be, especially to those with a large post count), then wouldn't $30 be a very reasonable price to pay to get the site back?

I don't think threating the membership is going to get you very far.
im not threating anything im not even upset about it im just saying if you dont want me here i'll post back on the site i use to post on. I just liked talking with people in my area instead of all around the world. But if im not wanted because im not a member tell me i'll leave

im not threating anything im not even upset about it im just saying if you dont want me here i'll post back on the site i use to post on. I just liked talking with people in my area instead of all around the world. But if im not wanted because im not a member tell me i'll leave
noone said any sort of thing like that...

im not threating anything im not even upset about it im just saying if you dont want me here i'll post back on the site i use to post on. I just liked talking with people in my area instead of all around the world. But if im not wanted because im not a member tell me i'll leave

I post on several sites as well from gaming forums to legal forums to fish forums. I really don't get much work done... :doh:

Anyways, I'm a paid member on a quite a few of them. However, this one is my favorite and is my "home" so to speak. We're not telling you to leave and go post on your other forums. Instead we are asking you nicely to buy into the club and join the "family" so to speak. At least give it a chance as I don't think you'll regret it. Raj said he will refund you from his own deep pocket if you don't like the club... :D

ohh i love the site it's my favorite one it's just the stores around me don't except the arc card and it's very rare i got toward atlanta to use it and i don't have time to attend the meetings have to small children its hard to go to wal-mart thats why i havent becme a paid member.

im not threating anything im not even upset about it im just saying if you dont want me here i'll post back on the site i use to post on. I just liked talking with people in my area instead of all around the world. But if im not wanted because im not a member tell me i'll leave


Man, you are taking it the wrong way. You too are not in the problematic group, as you do not have a tremendous post count or problems with respectfulnes. We are losing site of the main issue, and that is whether or not a paid member should have improved benefits over unpaid members, while simultaneously limiting the amount of users that reap the same benefits as a paid contributor to a excessive degree. You are among the folks that are very welcome.

In no way are new users or non-members unwanted, as if they are shunned, the club's fate ultimatly is to die, as recruitment becomes almost impossible.

One thing you mention though is that no stores around you accept the arc discounts. I know this sucks, but ultimatly the discount is not the most beneficial part of membership. At first it seems that way, but overall what knowledge and kindness this club gives to its members is the most beneficial reward. Look at people who are moving, have crashes, or need help in general. Almost none of them go unhelped here.

I am confident that if my tank crashed today I would have an overwhelming response of offers to help me restock it, at least to some degree that would keep me in the hobby. That is hard to buy (unless you get tank insurance?)

Man, you are taking it the wrong way. You too are not in the problematic group, as you do not have a tremendous post count or problems with respectfulnes. We are losing site of the main issue, and that is whether or not a paid member should have improved benefits over unpaid members, while simultaneously limiting the amount of users that reap the same benefits as a paid contributor to a excessive degree. You are among the folks that are very welcome.

In no way are new users or non-members unwanted, as if they are shunned, the club's fate ultimatly is to die, as recruitment becomes almost impossible.

One thing you mention though is that no stores around you accept the arc discounts. I know this sucks, but ultimatly the discount is not the most beneficial part of membership. At first it seems that way, but overall what knowledge and kindness this club gives to its members is the most beneficial reward. Look at people who are moving, have crashes, or need help in general. Almost none of them go unhelped here.

I am confident that if my tank crashed today I would have an overwhelming response of offers to help me restock it, at least to some degree that would keep me in the hobby. That is hard to buy (unless you get tank insurance?)


I see what you are saying like you said i just took it the wrong way like i said i love this site and whould like to continue to post here. Thanks for putting me in check.I just got the feeling that if your not a member **** you.

I see what you are saying like you said i just took it the wrong way like i said i love this site and whould like to continue to post here. Thanks for putting me in check.I just got the feeling that if your not a member **** you.


Definately no the case. We want new members and welcome non-members alike. People are going to get upset if you benefit from the club, don't support the club, then turn around and insult that same club, only to ask for more the very next day. BUT, this thread is about what benefits should the members have that non-members do not. It's in no way to say we don't want you here, it more a discussion on what more can we provide the members.

everyone starts as a non member. and there are some people that the 30$ is not in their budget.

if it were a matter of them costing the club money in bandwith Id agree here, but... lets be realistic, thats not likely the case(please correct me if Im wrong).

so past that, dont see why they should be limited... Im not a fan of rules though. I mean, I paid because I wanted to support the club, and have access to the benefits(which have paid for the club dues 10x over). but I dont see how removing non members from the forum would improve the club :/

Okay I will be the first to say. I dont have a membership, and I do sell some stuff and also buy some from members. I have givin away alot to members which never have a problem with taking free stuff from a non member. There are many good people and subjects that can be found here. I have made an abundent amount of friends on this site.

I thought the internet was full of free information! Well it seems to be false since everyone is worried about non members using the site for information, and buying and selling stuff. You dont have to be a paying member on craigs lists to sell or buy anything wow if so less people would use the site. Ebay doesnt charge you a membership fee to buy or sell anything.

People like free thats whats so attractive FREE. Maybe there should be some restrictions like meetings, ECT...... Maybe just a 30 day trial. Its just goofy that the site starts off with all the free things you get when your here to what this whole thread is about.

I am dissapounted that it has to come to this. I would like to be a member and not feel that people are talking about non members behind there backs. As if they were not good enough for this club.

Im not really mad just kinda feel doopped into getting a membership. The only thing I do here is buy, sell, give away free stuff, and get free information. I cant ever make a meeting becuase I work those days. I rairly ever buy anything from the LFS, I dont get to see any speakers. I dont know if I would miss the site as much as the people I have met... So with that all said How do I get my membership without using paypal??

As one of those who has no intention of joining, I will give my thoughts. I have done the "Aquarium Club" thing in the past. I appolagize is my point has allready be said, I was too lazy to carefully read every post.
______________

I am not there to sell stuff, I am not here to mooch off the experience of others, and I am not here to harass people. I am a long time hobbiest (15 years), I have a degree in Marine Biology, and have worked off and on in various aspects of the aquarium industry. I feal that I have significant skills and knowlege that I can share. And I enjoy shareing my knowlege with fellow Atlanta Aquarium Hobbiests. Look at my posts if you want, you will find that almost all of my posts are answering peoples questions.

If you are bothered by a non-paying member helping people out and answering peoples questions that is fine. I will leave. But IMO it is the clubs loss more than a loss to me.
_____________

Now moving beyond my own personal situation.

Your sponsors are paying to have their presense known, both to members and to to non members. In fact your sponsors would rather the website be full of non-members as they don't have to give them a discount. If I were a sponsor, I would want to see you encouraging non member participation as the more people who participate the more exposure I would get. Think of it like the yellow pages. Who would buy an ad in the yellowpages if customers had to pay $30 to buy a copy.

Next from a members who likes selling stuff's point of view. If I am posting an ad in the FS area, I would want as many potential buyers as possible looking at the ad. The more buyers the more you will be able to get for your stuff.

Then as a newbee. When I ask a question, I want an answer, and I want it ASAP. I don't care if the person answering my question has payed dues. The more people participating in the forums the quicker and the more help I will get. Thus as a newbee, my experience is hurt as well by restricting non-members.

Now as the more experienced mememers. These are the people answering newbee's questions. This person might be annoyed by lots of non-members asking questions, but the solution is simple. Just don't answer them. It is not like it is difficult to see who is and who is not a member. If you are annoyed by non paying members asking questions, don't answer them. The non-member newbees will leave quickly if their quesitons go ignored. And if most paying members are not bothered by non-paying members asking questions, their questions will get answered and they will stay, but if most paying members are not bothered by non paying members asking questions, you should not be booting them anyway.

And then finally to the Admins. Yea I can see how it is annoying to have non-members telling you how to run the club. The answer here is simple as well. Just post admin stuff in a forum that only paying memebers can post in, then you won't have to read any complaints from non-paying members.

Why you would want to discourage people from participating in the forums is beyond me. From any angle I can look at it from, the club as a whole benetifs from increased participation in the forums by non-members.

Yes there might be a few people who will pay the dues in order to be able to use the website, but I would be very surprized if the increased revenue from these people offset the resources you lost. There are plenty of aquarium related web forums that are free, I can not immagine anyone paying just so they could participate in the fourms. If you make people pay to participate, the 99% of the non-members will just leave. And when they leave, the paying members are loosing out.

Now it seems perfectly reasonable to make incentives to encourage poeple to join. But you should do it in a way that adds utility to paying members, not in a way that makes non-paying members leave.

Perhaps only let paying members host images on your server, only let paying members start FS ads, and give paying members a larger PM box. But booting a user for refusing to joins seems quite counter productive to me.

Wow

This has been discussed and already put to bed. Everyone had the opportunity to come and put their two cents in at the BOD meeting. Very few people showed up.

We don't have any plans to limit access to the forums for non-members. We just won't go the extra mile to provide perks. It's amazingly simple.

What's boggling is the non-members basically threatening to leave. Nobody asked you to leave and nobody is going to beg you to stay. Stay, don't stay, just don't complain.

It's not like we turned off the search feature for non-members...

+111

As one of those who has no intention of joining, I will give my thoughts. I have done the "Aquarium Club" thing in the past. I appolagize is my point has allready be said, I was too lazy to carefully read every post.
______________

I am not there to sell stuff, I am not here to mooch off the experience of others, and I am not here to harass people. I am a long time hobbiest (15 years), I have a degree in Marine Biology, and have worked off and on in various aspects of the aquarium industry. I feal that I have significant skills and knowlege that I can share. And I enjoy shareing my knowlege with fellow Atlanta Aquarium Hobbiests. Look at my posts if you want, you will find that almost all of my posts are answering peoples questions.

If you are bothered by a non-paying member helping people out and answering peoples questions that is fine. I will leave. But IMO it is the clubs loss more than a loss to me.
_____________

Now moving beyond my own personal situation.

Your sponsors are paying to have their presense known, both to members and to to non members. In fact your sponsors would rather the website be full of non-members as they don't have to give them a discount. If I were a sponsor, I would want to see you encouraging non member participation as the more people who participate the more exposure I would get. Think of it like the yellow pages. Who would buy an ad in the yellowpages if customers had to pay $30 to buy a copy.

Next from a members who likes selling stuff's point of view. If I am posting an ad in the FS area, I would want as many potential buyers as possible looking at the ad. The more buyers the more you will be able to get for your stuff.

Then as a newbee. When I ask a question, I want an answer, and I want it ASAP. I don't care if the person answering my question has payed dues. The more people participating in the forums the quicker and the more help I will get. Thus as a newbee, my experience is hurt as well by restricting non-members.

Now as the more experienced mememers. These are the people answering newbee's questions. This person might be annoyed by lots of non-members asking questions, but the solution is simple. Just don't answer them. It is not like it is difficult to see who is and who is not a member. If you are annoyed by non paying members asking questions, don't answer them. The non-member newbees will leave quickly if their quesitons go ignored. And if most paying members are not bothered by non-paying members asking questions, their questions will get answered and they will stay, but if most paying members are not bothered by non paying members asking questions, you should not be booting them anyway.

And then finally to the Admins. Yea I can see how it is annoying to have non-members telling you how to run the club. The answer here is simple as well. Just post admin stuff in a forum that only paying memebers can post in, then you won't have to read any complaints from non-paying members.

Why you would want to discourage people from participating in the forums is beyond me. From any angle I can look at it from, the club as a whole benetifs from increased participation in the forums by non-members.

Yes there might be a few people who will pay the dues in order to be able to use the website, but I would be very surprized if the increased revenue from these people offset the resources you lost. There are plenty of aquarium related web forums that are free, I can not immagine anyone paying just so they could participate in the fourms. If you make people pay to participate, the 99% of the non-members will just leave. And when they leave, the paying members are loosing out.

Now it seems perfectly reasonable to make incentives to encourage poeple to join. But you should do it in a way that adds utility to paying members, not in a way that makes non-paying members leave.

Perhaps only let paying members host images on your server, only let paying members start FS ads, and give paying members a larger PM box. But booting a user for refusing to joins seems quite counter productive to me.

This has been discussed and already put to bed. Everyone had the opportunity to come and put their two cents in at the BOD meeting. Very few people showed up.

We don't have any plans to limit access to the forums for non-members. We just won't go the extra mile to provide perks. It's amazingly simple.

What's boggling is the non-members basically threatening to leave. Nobody asked you to leave and nobody is going to beg you to stay. Stay, don't stay, just don't complain.

It's not like we turned off the search feature for non-members...

sounds good to me! and there are member only forums available if that is someones preference...

This has been discussed and already put to bed. Everyone had the opportunity to come and put their two cents in at the BOD meeting. Very few people showed up.

We don't have any plans to limit access to the forums for non-members. We just won't go the extra mile to provide perks. It's amazingly simple.

What's boggling is the non-members basically threatening to leave. Nobody asked you to leave and nobody is going to beg you to stay. Stay, don't stay, just don't complain.

It's not like we turned off the search feature for non-members...
When is the site upgrade going to take place?

There souldnt be people threating to leave, but just give up the $30 bucks and try to use some extra resources the club has to offer. I am not one of the people to complain to the mods or start any trouble Im pretty peaceful and just love the hobby, like most of the people here. I have a membership to another reef site that I was waiting for the membership to expire before getting mine here. Which is the 1st of the year. I dont see myself using that site much anymore becuase of the time spent here. I really like everyone here. And as soon as someone helps me out on the membership side and tells me how to pay without using paypal I will join. This is a great place and I have learned alot.

Will had a bunch of good points and I remain on the fence on this. Clearly, this topic has once again become an issue just because of a few select non-members. Instead of a blanket approach to non-members involving post counts/time limit/BST restrictions perhaps we simply need a stricter conduct policy for non-members with more serious repercussions for trouble making non-members vs. members.

Nobody asked you to leave and nobody is going to beg you to stay. Stay, don't stay, just don't complain....


Thank you for the incredibly obvious voice of reason. I am always amazed at the "food is not good and there is not enough of it" course that these threads engender from some non-members. FWIW, as a general statement not directed toward any specific non-member, more BoD time is spent on complaints and problems about/from non-members than on all of the members of ARC.

The ARC is focused on providing a community for its members, which includes an online presence, monthly meetings, seminars such as MACNA and SWU, tours of tanks, power buys, summer parties, and a holiday party. The focus of the leadership every year is to provide (through voluntarism, no less) the best of all these possible services to the ARC members, of which there has been between a 20-50% increase almost every year, and we now hover around 600 members.

1) This thread was started because of a few non-members who caused ruckus and the point being made that they should pay to have that right.

First, let's ask ourselves this: If they are causing problems as non-members, what makes anyone think they won't cause problems as members? Secondly, if they are causing problems, kick them off the site, members or not (no offense, but members have caused problems too).

2) We are coming into the age of "Free." No one should have to pay to participate on our forums imo. That said, with what has already been said a million times, if we want more members, add benefits to the membership. This can be done in many ways and it won't cost the club an extra penny. The mistake would be to restrict non-members from participating in the forums whether because of post count or something else (perks like bigger PM boxes, uploading pictures, members only forums, etc are understandable).

3) I became a paying member of this club for one reason only: The discounts at sponsor stores (mentioned to me by a paying member). I continued to be a member because I realized after being here long enough, that there is much more to this club and that it is something I want to support. I now live in Miami and I am still a member. But I can honestly say that there is no longer any benefit to my membership. That kind of stinks but I have enough love for the club to not really care about getting perks for my $30. In my mind, me paying my dues is more of a charitable donation. However, most people, especially those who haven't already become members probably don't feel that way and that is completely understandable.

4) So IMO, If the club needs/wants more paying members they need to find ways to add perks to the membership, without squandering the non-members who are important as well. So even someone in Miami who never actually belonged to the club could have a reason to join. This thread should turn into suggestions to meet that purpose.

5) Someone should create a thread detailing all the good things this club has done for the community. Make it a sticky. A non-member might see this and say, ****, this is a good place.

Ebay doesnt charge you a membership fee to buy or sell anything.

I must be using EBay wrong. I get charged every time I list something for sale. And I have to pay whether the item sells or not.

There is a good reason I havent posted since I first started this thread. First, I had a final exam that I just now finished and two there is really nothing to discuss. The BOD is on top of this and has a plan in the works. If in the event that plan doesnt pan out or doesnt fit the needs then I am sure the new officers will take care of it. This has been discussed enough. Please move to RnC. Incase you need a reason see comment below.

I must be using EBay wrong. I get charged every time I list something for sale. And I have to pay whether the item sells or not.
agreed

I am concerned about shoe flinging radicals! What is this world coming to!!!:unsure:

I must be using EBay wrong. I get charged every time I list something for sale. And I have to pay whether the item sells or not.

lol....very true. But they dont charge to buy something or to ask a seller a question or to participate in their community or group sections.

Uhhh... make this a political thread and you know where it'll end up!

I am concerned about shoe flinging radicals! What is this world coming to!!!:unsure:

Who throws a shoe. I mean really!

lol....very true. But they dont charge to buy something or to ask a seller a question or to participate in their community or group sections.

Yeah, because if they charged you it would be double dipping :) Im pretty sure you can "tax" a service twice from both ends.

Who throws a shoe. I mean really!

Yeah, really. Next thing you know, they'll be asking us to remove our shoes at airport security checkpoints.

Oh, wait....

Yeah, really. Next thing you know, they'll be asking us to remove our shoes at airport security checkpoints.

Oh, wait....

I heard one of them ask a lady to remove her cast......not bandage but cast. Finally they had to settle for a flashlight inspection and metal detector.

The answer here is simple as well. Just post admin stuff in a forum that only paying memebers can post in, then you won't have to read any complaints from non-paying members.


Finally a comment I agree with. That's where this thread should have been started.

Charlie you crack me up man. +1

Jorge +1. Good stuff.

Finally a comment I agree with. That's where this thread should have been started.

Then you leave the voice of the non-members out.....which seems a bit dictatorish since im pretty much catering my discussion to people who have a clear opinion already.

Ok, Have ya'll had your run of this topic?!? Can we get back to discussing the corals I want from Rit and Jin's tanks and the capital punishment thread in RnC?!?

I knew about this thread last night and decided to give it a few hours to see where it would end up. Just as I though, it has ended up exactly were every other thread of this nature has ended up, going around in circles. There is no easy solution people!! How many times do we have to go down this road before we accept that. The BoD and I have been working on a solution all year long. Something that will give the membership more value but not take away things from non-members. See, it is very easy for me... It is not about the money, it is about the community! I would be all for FREE membership if the club could make it without membership, but we can not provide the same level of service and quality if we did not have members. Plain and simple. But this is not about the money. I am proud to say that this years BoD has left the club with the greatest surplus of funds it has ever seen. We brought more speakers and did more things but somehow we planned our funds in such a way that we can continue to grow in the future. Now with that said, I am ashamed if anybody feel "pressured" into joining the club. You should join the club because that is what you think you want to do, not because you were made to feel guilty or like a second class citizen. I am all for "free frags to members" or Rit's "LE Frag Pack for joining!" I think those threads are awesome. The people who signed up did so on their own free will. Even a little joke like when someone posts for a fish trap and a member says, "we have one free to members, hint hint..." But outright hostility toward a non-member I will not stand for! With that said, I take complaints from non-members like a grain of salt. I mean it is no different then paying your taxes in this country. If you do not pay your taxes do not complain about social programs or how things are run. To get the right to complain, you must have a dog in the fight.

With that being said, am I likely to spend my time helping a member with a fish problem then a non-member with an eel problem, sure... My time is limited and I choose to help a member over a non-member if I have to make a choice. Call it a perk of membership. So you want to find a way to add value for the membership, take a page from Rit or myself and help out your fellow members.

As far as the time line for changes to non-member accounts. Loren and Chris are working on those changes. The BoD decided not to take anything away from non-members, other then Avatars, Signatures, things that use up server space, etc. We are working on a way to add google ads that non-members will see. So even though they are not paying membership dues, every time they view a page or make a post, they will be adding some money into the ARC account to pay for their usage.

So, I thank everyone for their concern but it is really not needed. The BoD is committed to doing what is needed to make the ARC a stronger, better run group, for all involved.

im guessing this thread was directed to me, mainly because i have a high post count and have caused some problems. my response is, i did have the money to pay for it but was just too lazy to send it in. then last night i made a deal with my parents which left me broke till summer, when i get my first pay check in summer for my job, this will be the first thing to spend it on. if they revoke my access, so be it ill just wait till summer and come back.

im guessing this thread was directed to me, mainly because i have a high post count and have caused some problems. my response is, i did have the money to pay for it but was just too lazy to send it in. then last night i made a deal with my parents which left me broke till summer, when i get my first pay check in summer for my job, this will be the first thing to spend it on. if they revoke my access, so be it ill just wait till summer and come back.

I wasnt even aware of your situation and if it comes down to you having limited access, I will be more than happy to pay your membership fee since you are an extremely intelligent and generally well manored teen with a great interest and drive to learn about the hobby. I will actively attempt to ensure people like you who have genuinely good intentions have the ability to access the forum. Just no more selling Superman montis k?

I wasnt even aware of your situation and if it comes down to you having limited access, I will be more than happy to pay your membership fee. Just no more selling Superman montis k?
lol

:confused2: I wasnt even aware of your situation and if it comes down to you having limited access, I will be more than happy to pay your membership fee since you are an extremely intelligent and generally well manored teen with a great interest and drive to learn about the hobby. I will actively attempt to ensure people like you who have genuinely good intentions have the ability to access the forum. Just no more selling Superman montis k?

I wasnt even aware of your situation and if it comes down to you having limited access, I will be more than happy to pay your membership fee. Just no more selling Superman montis k?
no thanks charlie, i would like to pay for this one on my own, some of you guys know what i mean. :doh: and no more superman montis, actually i am not going to sell frags anymore, just trading or giving away.

oh you guys sorry, this thread was not directed towards me, got a pm telling me who it was directed towards.

oh you guys sorry, this thread was not directed towards me, got a pm telling me who it was directed towards.
I was about to send you a pm aswell..glad it got figured out:thumbs:

I wasnt even aware of your situation and if it comes down to you having limited access, I will be more than happy to pay your membership fee since you are an extremely intelligent and generally well manored teen with a great interest and drive to learn about the hobby. I will actively attempt to ensure people like you who have genuinely good intentions have the ability to access the forum. Just no more selling Superman montis k?

Count Southeast Aquariums in for half of that. Sorry Blind, you don't have a choice in this one.

Say... didn't I pick up the tab for half of your signup last time? :) I think we sorted that one out after you left Sal's party about a year ago.

You've grown up a lot in the past year, we're happy to still have you aboard.

Count Southeast Aquariums in for half of that. Sorry Blind, you don't have a choice in this one.

Say... didn't I pick up the tab for half of your signup last time? :) I think we sorted that one out after you left Sal's party about a year ago.

You've grown up a lot in the past year, we're happy to still have you aboard.

yea you did, but i was told to not give the names of the members in public.

:)

To hell with altruism, I want recognition :).

At least now I can take some of the blame for the superman monti.

Your status should get updated before too long.

Well, there's really no point in me posting, since it probably won't get read anyway, but since we're on the topic....

Let's pick any other volunteer organization. Say... Greenpeace, who promotes protecting the environment. The NRA, who promotes gun rights. ASPCA, who promotes animal rights. ACLU, who protects civil liberties. What do all those sites have in common? They are there to help foster a community, provide support, communicate between people with a common interest, and to provide an infrastructure for a common interest. How are these organizations supported? Through membership dues (or donations - depends on the organization).

But these organizations would all exist if one or two people didn't donate money. The NRA would continue to lobby. The ASPCA would continue to fund shelters. And so on. But it's the collective funds from a number of people who share a common interest that keeps a body alive.

"But the ARC isn't as big as those groups!" You're right, which is why club membership is that much more important - we still have rather large expenses. The ARC doesn't lobby to congress. The ARC doesn't file lawsuits to protect civil liberties. But the ARC does foster an environment for the people who are friends with a common interest. And that environment includes meetings, raffles, donations, this forum, and other things that cost money. But the club does more- the intangible benefits that are sometimes forgotten.

The club has made a number of contributions outside of the members. (I tried to start cataloging this last year (see here (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8982)), but it proved to be too much to list.) The reason these are possible is that we're all here because we share a common interest. The search for Jin's dog is a great example (and just one of many) of the club coming together. The members have volunteered time and again for something, because they simply want to help others. Why was this even possible? Because we're all here. And why is the club still around? Because of the membership dues - it's an unfortunate fact of life that things cost money, even if we're all here to help each other out and spread information. Just like someone may support the animal rights, it's their financial contritribution that makes the ASPCA continue to operate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... membership isn't about giving to the club for your own benefits. It's to support an organization that has grown to be far more than "just a fish club." Rather, it's a group of friends who (mostly!) try to do the right thing; the club just makes that all possible. And, for better or worse, the membership dues make that possible.

I, for one, am proud of not only the time I donate into administration and moderation of these forums, but the fact that I can and DO donate to the club so that we're all here. While I didn't have anything personally to do with people volunteering at the GA Aquarium, people helping to find Jin's dog, etc, I do feel proud that I can be part of something that fosters that community. I suspect that all the other members feel this way; it's only natural to want others to feel the same.

I also forgot to add all the wonderful things the club does for the community outside of reefing...

LorenK's donation to Victor's baby (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8923)
BigD's help to armynavywife (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6286)
Flipturn88's coordination of helping Heather Emery (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2721)

Donations to Reef Check, over $14K to the Georgia Aquarium, Katrina Relief, and over $1,000 to Tsunami relief. 4 years of a teen program that has taken HS students to teach them about marine biology and issues!

So if you can not find a reson to support the club and your fellow reefers, how about supporting all that the club does for society as a whole.

LMAO, Chris beat me by 1 min!!!! Great minds think alike!!! You said it better then me though!!! ;)

There souldnt be people threating to leave, but just give up the $30 bucks and try to use some extra resources the club has to offer. I am not one of the people to complain to the mods or start any trouble Im pretty peaceful and just love the hobby, like most of the people here. I have a membership to another reef site that I was waiting for the membership to expire before getting mine here. Which is the 1st of the year. I dont see myself using that site much anymore becuase of the time spent here. I really like everyone here. And as soon as someone helps me out on the membership side and tells me how to pay without using paypal I will join. This is a great place and I have learned alot.



There is an option to print a signup sheet under the paypal option. Just print it and send in check or money order or bring cash to a meeting. I am printing mine as we speak. Yes I am one of the lazy ones. I don't feel pressured in any way, but I do understand where everyone is coming from here and I really want to be a part of this community and am looking forward to meeting more people in this hobby. BTW Thanks to all of you who have been a huge help to me and made me feel more than welcome

Lee is correct- there's a separate signup sheet (http://www.atlantareefclub.org/images/NewMemberSignup.pdf), if you don't want to use paypal or can't come to a meeting. Obviously, it'll take a little more time to process everything- talk to Helene (Beesbaby) about the process if you have any questions.

Welcome to the club, Lee!

ive got a feeling this is actually pointed towards me at this moment. maybe it isnt, maybe it is......
if it is, for whoever i have upset. i apologize.
i havnt been able to get online much lately but should be around more, if i can i am allowed that is. i know i have asked for help in the past and things happened that i do not want to get into at this moment.

sorry for being a pain in the rear to everyone. i was/am planning on joining after the new year. could use those discounts to start setting up my newest tank and finishing it.

I really don't believe this discussion was directed towards any one person. If anyone takes it personally, then you're seeing it from your viewpoint (and introspection is always good, in my eyes), but I don't think Charlie was trying to single anyone out.