I have been doing some thinking. We should have a thread dedicated to nutrient export. If you have any ideas or suggestions please post. Now I have been reading the threads and I have noticed that a good wc and quality skimmer would help 99.999% of our newer members. So I suggest:

1-A quality skimmer that is a tad overrated for your setup
2-Macro's
3-Mangroves "I like them"
4-WATER CHANGES
5-Feeding, I like fat fish so I always feed heavy.

What ideas do you have for exporting?

I have dialed my skimmer in to dredge mud, I keep my macro cut back and tossed to help export.. I need to do more water changed.. Mangroves seem to be all the rage lately

1-A quality skimmer that is a tad overrated for your setup
2-Macro's
3-Mangroves "I like them"
4-WATER CHANGES
5-Feeding, I like fat fish so I always feed heavy.


I agree with all these, except the last one - heavy feeding, while good for the fish, isn't a nutrient export. Also, I'd like to see a study that shows that mangroves is similar to macro algae in nutrient export; most of what I've seen is that they produce a smaller amount of bioload in the same given system.

Also don't forget chemical or mechanical filtration (carbon, purigen, etc).


I have dialed my skimmer in to dredge mud

Hmm - I'm not sure that you're getting the most out of your skimmer if you're getting a really thick skimmate. Skimmer settings is a separate discussion, though.

Yeah, I want to try mangroves, but I'm wondering just how much they help.

Although not directly related to nutrient export, I also think testing should be on the list. Seems like some people rely on the LFS to test their water, when IMO they should only use it as a suppliment to their own testing. Everyone should have a good range of test kits, and know how to properly test and read results. Oh, and should test on a regular basis. I try to weekly or biweekly.

I've always heard the darker the more concentrated.. I'm prolly mistaken though

I have dialed my skimmer in to dredge mud, I keep my macro cut back and tossed to help export.. I need to do more water changed.. Mangroves seem to be all the rage lately

You need to keep the neck nice and clean, skimming wet does a better job at this than dry. If the protein start to stick to the neck instead of settling in the cup, the skimmer efficiency starts to go down.

You need to keep the neck nice and clean, skimming wet does a better job at this than dry. If the protein start to stick to the neck instead of settling in the cup, the skimmer efficiency starts to go down.

Argee 100% Thats the issue I'm running into now with my skimmer. The neck gunks up too fast. Hmmmm, maybe some sort of self cleaning device needs to be built :) I don't think Alan meant to ahve "feeding" in there as saying that will export nutrients as much as he was trying to say too much feeding is bad. A rewording on that would have been better yes. I'm in Alans boat tho, I feed extremely heavy! Fat fish are happy fish.

Yeah I have to clean it about once a week.. Forms up like mud prolly a half inch inside the center tube..

"Wetter is better"

We need that on a T-shirt!

I agree!! I would buy one..

Seriously, the cleaner you can keep the neck of the skimmer, the more efficiently and effectively it will operate. If you want to skim dry, just be prepared to clean the cup as often (or more so) as if you were skimming wet.

One way I like to export nutrient is lots of LIVE ROCK. Even within my sump I would overstack that. The more porous the rock, the better.

I am going to show my age in this hobby by this next comment but how about the things that we used to do back in the day to export before we had all the skimmers and what not?!? Things like:

Coil Denitrafiers
Pleniums (I still use them to this day)
Crypto Fuges (These are making a come back though)
Aiptasia filters (I always wanted to try one of these!)
Balanced ecosystems

These are the first few things that come to mind that we used to use (and some of us still do) as a way for a reduction in nutrients.

Seriously, the cleaner you can keep the neck of the skimmer, the more efficiently and effectively it will operate.

One thing I've noticed is that since I've started using a dedicated brush to clean the neck, the skimmer starts skimming hard immediately after cleaning. Before, I was using my fingers to clean the neck and cup, and I think the oils on my hands resulted in a break-in period of about 1 day before it started to skim hard.

Other nutrient export methods to consider:
-Cryptic 'fuge with sponges
-Xenia
-other soft corals
-organisms that feed on detritus

Bah, Brandon, you beat me to it again!

LOL... Got to be quicker... See you cheat and look in the book, I have this stuff memorized, makes me that much faster!!! ;)

Book, what book?

Aiptasia filters (I always wanted to try one of these!)

Can you elaborate? I mean, I have a clue, but, any special tricks?

Aiptasia filters (I always wanted to try one of these!)

Can you elaborate? I mean, I have a clue, but, any special tricks?

There are a few different designs that have floated around for years but the theory is this: Aiptasia is a anemone. By placing a box or raceway in your filter system filled with Aiptasia, any matter that flows past is going to get consumed by the aiptasia before it has a chance to break down and turn into ammonia. The trick that people have had problems with over the years was keeping the aiptasia where it belongs and not spreading to the rest of the tank. Most people have found that a 50 micro screen will keep the aiptasia in its place.

Most people report very clear water using an aiptasia filter.

Hmmm intresting, how would you collect aip. To fill up the filter?

From what I hear, just buy some LR with one or two on it. They will do the rest themselves... :)

That's one way I suppose lol, I figured it would be more difficult, hell everything else in this hobby is.. :)

One way I like to export nutrient is lots of LIVE ROCK. Even within my sump I would overstack that. The more porous the rock, the better.

THis is NOT nutrient export.

Yeah, I want to try mangroves, but I'm wondering just how much they help.From what I've read mangroves grow so slowly they aren't really all that effective at utilizing excess nutrients.

Plenums and DSB's don't export nutrients either. THey hold them well, keep them contained if you will. BUt they don't export nutrients. Organisms that eat detritus also excrete detritus so you aren't actually exporting there either. In my opinion the two most effective ways of exporting are via skimming(wet) and water changes.

WOW! Great thread everyone. Yea I was just saying that I feed alot. Not that it's a export. LOL Anyway I think Crypto fuges are great. I have always wanted to build one myself. I think George built one tho.

As Brandon was saying a balanced eco system would be great. But I don't know how a person would go about it? Are you saying balanced without a skimmer or just that balanced is better?

THis is NOT nutrient export.

From what I've read mangroves grow so slowly they aren't really all that effective at utilizing excess nutrients.

Plenums and DSB's don't export nutrients either. THey hold them well, keep them contained if you will. BUt they don't export nutrients. Organisms that eat detritus also excrete detritus so you aren't actually exporting there either. In my opinion the two most effective ways of exporting are via skimming(wet) and water changes. Water changes are pretty much the best way and are like magic, great nutrient export and trace element import. Since I have gotten out of keeping the bigger tanks and started playing with nanos Its really easy to see the benefits. I am able to change more water more often because of ease and low volume. which creates faster growth and really keeps my perams in check. I believe if that with these smaller tanks I could even go without a skimmer even though I choose to run one and a fuge. I have heard of people having success with just water curculation and staying on top of their water changes.

WOW! Great thread everyone. Yea I was just saying that I feed alot. Not that it's a export. LOL Anyway I think Crypto fuges are great. I have always wanted to build one myself. I think George built one tho.

As Brandon was saying a balanced eco system would be great. But I don't know how a person would go about it? Are you saying balanced without a skimmer or just that balanced is better?

I have known people to run a "balanced" ecosystem with or without a skimmer. About 10 years ago, when I was first starting into reefing, there was a big push for a "balanced" ecosystem. I think I have achieved that to some small degree in my 55 gallon tank. I have a successful tank with good coral growth (SPS, LPS and Softies) and 12 fish without a skimmer over the past 6 month. Heck, over the past year my skimmers have not been working well or have been non-existent. How does this happen? Well, first off, I would not suggest that most people try this before their tank is balanced. But I pride myself on designing a tank with the micro-organisms in mind. Anyone that gets Chaeto from me talks about the amount of life in the grass. I make sure I have a healthy source of Rotifers, Mysid, Mysis, Pods, Worms, filter feeders, sponges, etc... I think this makes for a balanced system of nutrient "export" and conversion. I try not to let one thing get out of balance from another. I look at my tank as an Ecosphere (http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/earth/wordfind/). I have gone months with out adding anything to the tank or even without performing a waterchange. I truly believe that this is because of how I have set up the system that I can get away with this. As a testament to my 10 year experiment, I have been trying to set up the 40 gal aquarium without using some of the past methods I have used for years (Plenium, Cryptofuge, Micro-population) but keeping the same low maintenance schedule as far as nutrient export and it has been a failure so far. So take what you will from that.

I have personally seen incredible benefits from a high quality skimmer and LOTS of LR with a large fug. I havent done much of a water change except for a few gallons here and there without any real problems in a while. Ive got a little bit of algae on the glass but not much else. Coralline growth is absolutely insane and my clowns just laid a batch of eggs. Everything seems happy.

My overflow in my 55 was overgrown with aiptasia. When I cleared it out of my main tank, I decided to leave the overflow alone for just this reason.

I wasn't able to quantify any difference...since it was pretty much always there since month one but I think it made a difference.

I am going to show my age in this hobby by this next comment but how about the things that we used to do back in the day to export before we had all the skimmers and what not?!? Things like:

Coil Denitrafiers
Pleniums (I still use them to this day)
Crypto Fuges (These are making a come back though)
Aiptasia filters (I always wanted to try one of these!)
Balanced ecosystems

These are the first few things that come to mind that we used to use (and some of us still do) as a way for a reduction in nutrients.

I have known people to run a "balanced" ecosystem with or without a skimmer. About 10 years ago, when I was first starting into reefing, there was a big push for a "balanced" ecosystem. I think I have achieved that to some small degree in my 55 gallon tank. I have a successful tank with good coral growth (SPS, LPS and Softies) and 12 fish without a skimmer over the past 6 month. Heck, over the past year my skimmers have not been working well or have been non-existent. How does this happen? Well, first off, I would not suggest that most people try this before their tank is balanced. But I pride myself on designing a tank with the micro-organisms in mind. Anyone that gets Chaeto from me talks about the amount of life in the grass. I make sure I have a healthy source of Rotifers, Mysid, Mysis, Pods, Worms, filter feeders, sponges, etc... I think this makes for a balanced system of nutrient "export" and conversion. I try not to let one thing get out of balance from another. I look at my tank as an Ecosphere (http://spaceplace.nasa.gov/en/kids/earth/wordfind/). I have gone months with out adding anything to the tank or even without performing a waterchange. I truly believe that this is because of how I have set up the system that I can get away with this. As a testament to my 10 year experiment, I have been trying to set up the 40 gal aquarium without using some of the past methods I have used for years (Plenium, Cryptofuge, Micro-population) but keeping the same low maintenance schedule as far as nutrient export and it has been a failure so far. So take what you will from that.

Very cool man!

THis is NOT nutrient export.

From what I've read mangroves grow so slowly they aren't really all that effective at utilizing excess nutrients.

Plenums and DSB's don't export nutrients either. THey hold them well, keep them contained if you will. BUt they don't export nutrients. Organisms that eat detritus also excrete detritus so you aren't actually exporting there either. In my opinion the two most effective ways of exporting are via skimming(wet) and water changes.

You sir need to RE-READ the original question instead of commenting on something that doesn't add anything of value to what people already have mentioned. If you want, I will quote what was orginally asked.

1-A quality skimmer that is a tad overrated for your setup
2-Macro's
3-Mangroves "I like them"
4-WATER CHANGES
5-Feeding, I like fat fish so I always feed heavy.

What ideas do you have for exporting?

Now if you want to get technically on the definition exporting then you are more than welcome to change your water 100% daily. Because that is what is required for EXPORTING, not 10% or 15% that you are doing weekly. In the mean time I will be contend with live rock to HELP in the removal of my nitrates and give me time to enjoy other things in life.

Also from what I've read plenums and DSB's convert nitrate into nitrogen gas which leaves the tank so these are both methods of export.

Brandon, I like the ecosystem method of reef tanks that you talk about. I ran my systems this way for the past ten years and was very happy with the results.

Only recently have I joined the skimmer crowd and it's only because I'm keeping to many fish in my 75g and I like to experiment to see if it will bring out better colors in my SPS.

If you get the chance check out "Dynamic Aquaria" by Adey and Loveland.
They talk about self sustaining ecosystems and microcosms. They were big proponents of the algae turf scrubers, sea grass, and mangrove systems and plankton friendly screw pumps.

I am bringing the under-gravel filter back!

In the mean time I will be contend with live rock to HELP in the removal of my nitrates and give me time to enjoy other things in life.

Live rock doesn't remove jack. Live rock is purely a home for the bacteria that convert fish **** and piss from from ammonia>nitrite>nitrate. The nitrate is still in your system no matter how much live rock you have.

RDSB! Especially for Alan and Lee. ;)

If you get the chance check out "Dynamic Aquaria" by Adey and Loveland.
They talk about self sustaining ecosystems and microcosms. They were big proponents of the algae turf scrubers, sea grass, and mangrove systems and plankton friendly screw pumps.

Merlin, who makes these "plankton friendly screw pumps" referred to by Adey and Loveland? I might look into using one on my next tank.

If you get the chance check out "Dynamic Aquaria" by Adey and Loveland.
They talk about self sustaining ecosystems and microcosms. They were big proponents of the algae turf scrubers, sea grass, and mangrove systems and plankton friendly screw pumps.


I have always wanted to read that book but I have never gotten my hands on it. To tell you the truth I wanted to get Walter Adey and/or Karen Loveland to speak to the club at a meeting but I have not been able to track them down.

RDSB! Especially for Alan and Lee. ;)

Hey Tee, that rhymes!

Cool thread everyone. Brandon, I can personally attest to your great Chaeto! But is keeping the "balance" a challenge? Do you have to constantly monitor things? You call it a low maintanence set up; is it really?

Y'all are making me feel really guilty about my skimmer. I clean the neck about once a month, when the quart-size collection cup is full.:blush: I should probably be better about that.

Live rock doesn't remove jack. Live rock is purely a home for the bacteria that convert fish **** and piss from from ammonia>nitrite>nitrate. The nitrate is still in your system no matter how much live rock you have.

Live rock also has low oxygen areas that convert nitrate to nitrogen.

Don't belive the hype :) Seriously I totally agree, I had a 20G that I changed 10G of water on weekly and that was it and it was up for 5 years with a pair of spawning clowns and an RBTA and tons of ricordia and zos in it. The key is you have to be diciplined, you can't overstock and you have to be willing to dedicate room for a nice fuge.

For the last ~5 years I've been an SPS freak though so lots of skimmer and a big calcium reactor have been a must.

I wouldn't get to hung up on the pumps. While originally it was thought they kill massive amounts the reality is most plankton make it through the pumps and survive. I read a study I think in advanced aquarist a while back.

By the way I have that book if anyone wants to borrow it!

Merlin, who makes these "plankton friendly screw pumps" referred to by Adey and Loveland? I might look into using one on my next tank.

I was talking about the Archimedes screw, a design thats been used in irrigation for centuries. I doubt you could find one that's small enough for a home aquarium. I know they use them in some large public aquariums, sewage treatment plants and in aquaculture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedes'_screw
These might work.
http://www.carrymfg.com/
http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/general-koi-forum/3258-fractional-axial-flow-pump-aquaculture-industry.html

Brandon, you can pick up a used copy for under twenty bucks
or your welcome to borrow mine.
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Aquaria-Building-Living-Ecosystems/dp/0120437929
http://www.calgaryaquariumsociety.com/Articles/Dynamic_Aquaria.html

I heard a story from a friend a while back about a tank doing extremely well without routine maintenance, water changes, large skimmers etc. The owner decided to cancel the outsourced monthly service for a while and the tank went somewhat neglected for a few months. The original maintenance guy was hired back and found that it was sustaining itself and coral growth was out of control. Upon further review he noticed that the inside of the overflow had been almost completely consumed with aiptasia.

Maybe we should try some aiptasia reactors for a change. :)